moderate snow routes coming into shape

Colorado peak questions, condition requests and other info.
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pizza-sandwich
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moderate snow routes coming into shape

Post by pizza-sandwich »

snows going to be firming up and we’re interested in moderate snow routes coming into form over the next couple months.

by moderate i’m thinking stuff that will need crampons and mountain axe, might need to pitch it out with terrain and hip belays, take an entire day, and be semi-safe from avalanche terrain or at least have super obvious signs for what to avoid.

what we don’t want: routes that will need rock pro or ice pro and probably multi-day routes unless they’re way too cool to miss and are pretty safe.

doesn’t have to be a 14er or 13er.

i’ve read a lot of posts with suggestions, but knowing when those routes are in form wasn’t made clear and we don’t want to end up on something in february when it’s safest/fun-est in late april.

anyway, thanks for any suggestions and if someone wants to get out for mid week m-f climbs give me a shout!
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Monster5
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Re: moderate snow routes coming into shape

Post by Monster5 »

Extreme generalization for climbing, not necessarily skiing.

Southern aspect climbs: March through early May (Cristo at the earlier, Skywalker at the later)
Eastern aspects: April through early May (Dead Dog, Dragonstail, Dead Elk, Boduoir, Savage, Bell Cord, James Peak couloirs)
Western aspects: April through late May
Northern aspects: May through early July. Pacific specifically is in primo climb shape sometime in May.
Wide open (Cristo) versus narrow and confined (Skywalker) goes to earlier or later in that range, respectively.

Notes:
There are of course plenty of exceptions and some year-round climbs. I personally prefer an icy crust with minimal postholing.
You don't want to be taking all day in CO. Base of the couloir by first light or earlier. Off the couloir by mid-morning when rockfall and avy danger ramp up, much less posthole misery. It is somewhat rare to see people pitching out entire couloirs, but some may carry rope for various topout (e.g. Superstar)
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pizza-sandwich
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Re: moderate snow routes coming into shape

Post by pizza-sandwich »

Monster5 wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 8:51 am Extreme generalization for climbing, not necessarily skiing.

Southern aspect climbs: March through early May (Cristo at the earlier, Skywalker at the later)
Eastern aspects: April through early May (Dead Dog, Dragonstail, Dead Elk, Boduoir, Savage, Bell Cord, James Peak couloirs)
Western aspects: April through late May
Northern aspects: May through early July. Pacific specifically is in primo climb shape sometime in May.
Wide open (Cristo) versus narrow and confined (Skywalker) goes to earlier or later in that range, respectively.

Notes:
There are of course plenty of exceptions and some year-round climbs. I personally prefer an icy crust with minimal postholing.
You don't want to be taking all day in CO. Base of the couloir by first light or earlier. Off the couloir by mid-morning when rockfall and avy danger ramp up, much less posthole misery. It is somewhat rare to see people pitching out entire couloirs, but some may carry rope for various topout (e.g. Superstar)

thanks so much for this outline! yeah a breakdown by aspect is exactly what i’d hoped for. thanks for the reminder about rockfall too.

we definitely don’t plan to pitch out entire couloirs, just including it if there’s short sections where a belay would be reassuring.

and shoulda specified that we’re not trying to skimo it, but the generalizations are helpful.

any ‘do not miss’ routes you can think of?
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Re: moderate snow routes coming into shape

Post by Boggy B »

In my experience, most quality snow climbing on east-to-north aspects happens in June. Often good conditions persist into July, and sometimes beyond. Things are rarely good before June except at lower elevations (<13k) or where specific terrain and localized weather patterns are in effect.

Add or subtract a week or two based on how the winter performed relative to average. If you want to snow climb in the Sangres, subtract a month and expect to wallow.
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Re: moderate snow routes coming into shape

Post by Vincopotamus »

pizza-sandwich wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 9:04 am any ‘do not miss’ routes you can think of?
I haven't done it so I may be speaking out of school, but I've heard people describe the Hopeful Couloir on Mt Hope (a centennial 13er) with words like "fun," "nice," and even "classic." It's on the to-do list. Seems like most people climb it in May most years.
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Scott P
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Re: moderate snow routes coming into shape

Post by Scott P »

Boggy B wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 9:20 am In my experience, most quality snow climbing on east-to-north aspects happens in June...Things are rarely good before June except at lower elevations (<13k) or where specific terrain and localized weather patterns are in effect.
On routes that aren't avy chutes, I would agree, but I think narrow couloirs that have seen a lot of slide activity often have great conditions in May since the avys pack down the snow and make it nice and hard. In May they don't soften up as quickly as June either.

In wider couloirs or on glacier routes, I agree that June is usually preferable on north facing slopes.
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Re: moderate snow routes coming into shape

Post by Boggy B »

Scott P wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 9:52 am On routes that aren't avy chutes, I would agree, but I think narrow couloirs that have seen a lot of slide activity often have great conditions in May since the avys pack down the snow and make it nice and hard. In May they don't soften up as quickly as June either.
Of about 80 (unique) CO snow climbs I've recorded conditions on 39 since 2014. Here's the breakdown:
April: 3
May : 3
June: 25
July : 8

The vast majority are narrow couloirs. Notes from April/May climbs indicate soft conditions except for S4 (in April), June/July almost all firm. Granted, this says conditions are good in June more than it contradicts decent climbing in May, but considering how rabid I was for snow climbs, there must be a reason for it. Guessing it has something to do with snowfall and the need for flotation above treeline in May, as well as the isothermic setup that usually occurs in early June.
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Re: moderate snow routes coming into shape

Post by jaymz »

Boggy B wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:54 am
Scott P wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 9:52 am On routes that aren't avy chutes, I would agree, but I think narrow couloirs that have seen a lot of slide activity often have great conditions in May since the avys pack down the snow and make it nice and hard. In May they don't soften up as quickly as June either.
Of about 80 (unique) CO snow climbs I've recorded conditions on 39 since 2014. Here's the breakdown:
April: 3
May : 3
June: 25
July : 8

The vast majority are narrow couloirs. Notes from April/May climbs indicate soft conditions except for S4 (in April), June/July almost all firm. Granted, this says conditions are good in June more than it contradicts decent climbing in May, but considering how rabid I was for snow climbs, there must be a reason for it. Guessing it has something to do with snowfall and the need for flotation above treeline in May, as well as the isothermic setup that usually occurs in early June.
Aside from the quantity of climbs, this has been my experience as well. Depending on the climb, snowpack, and aspect, I've become accustomed to aiming for early- to mid-June-ish when planning snow climbs. It seems more often than not that anything I've planned for April-mid May has had to be nixed due to unstable conditions. (FWIW, I am much less of a risk-taker than most when it comes to avy danger)
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Re: moderate snow routes coming into shape

Post by pizza-sandwich »

am i correct reading that april is too early for most routes?

or—like everything in colorado—it depends...
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Re: moderate snow routes coming into shape

Post by Monster5 »

Nah, April is just too early for subjectively good snow climbing.

As stated, I hate wallowing. Boggy hates wallowing. We like front pointing. That means we'll risk some melted out scree steps and topouts for 90% more enjoyable conditions in the couloir. Plenty of couloirs are done in April (mostly by skiers); it just means flotation on the approach and often knee deep steps.

FWIW, I don't really bother with snow climbs until late May to early June: approach with trail runners, switch boots and cruise. This is awesome for pre-work outings in the Front Range.

Edit. Mixed climbing is a far more fickle beast with often a 2-week primo season. Seems Martha is best late March through April, Dreamweaver late May through early June, Notch late June, Deborah early June, Dead Elk late May, Ypsilon's Y late June/early July, etc.
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Re: moderate snow routes coming into shape

Post by Scott P »

pizza-sandwich wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:38 am am i correct reading that april is too early for most routes?

or—like everything in colorado—it depends...
Routes that melt out early such as the Angel of Shavano are good then. In dry years it can already be out of condition in May. Some of the south facing routes such as Lackawanna Couloir are good then as well.

I have had good luck in April with routes such as the north couloir on Castle and Conundrum Couloir. It just depends on conditions.

As mentioned, for steeper routes that are better using front pointing, April can be too early, especially on north facing routes.
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Re: moderate snow routes coming into shape

Post by ltlFish99 »

I've been in Skywalker in may, june, and july. I thought that the july trip was the most enjoyable as there was a cool moat just below the last upper section, and it topped out with a neat narrow fin of snow/ice that was fun. The only issue with the july trip is that we started later than we should have and were chased off the summit by some serious lightning.

I was in the snake on sneffles one year in later june. It was a little to late in the season imo as the snow past the upper turn to the left was soft.
As in too soft and even a little creepy the higher we went as we were wallowing in it and felt somewhat uncomfortable with it being so soft.
The area from blain basin entrance to the couloir to the turn was great as this is a narrow section in the shade, and inset. We descended the standard route to the lavender col saddle and then down lavender back into blain basin.
It is a fun, fun route and if I go back it will be earlier.
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