Drinking on a Peak: What it Takes

Colorado peak questions, condition requests and other info.
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disentangled
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Re: Drinking on a Peak: What it Takes

Post by disentangled »

RyGuy wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:31 am
Shelly- As noted above, Acetone is an organic solvent and does exist in your body even. While it evaporates into the environment, so does gasoline, alcohol and many other cleaners/solvents. Lets be pragmatic here. I guarantee you release more toxic stuff into the air in a few days of normal activity than would be emitted by a few mL of Acetone. (Cleaners used at home/work, filling your car with gasoline, changing your oil, pesticides used in the yard on weeds, spraying insecticides, nail polish and nail polish remover (Also known as Acetone) painting, etc. In the overall scheme of things, it wouldn't be a big deal at all.

ah, Ryan.... that's just it. i question every chemical agent that i use. i don't use chemical cleaners at home. i don't use pesticides. i don't use insecticides. i don't use nail polish or nail polish remover. bloody hell, i've even used milk and earth pigment for paint in my house because, well, i can eat it! yes, i drive a car. yes, i use oil and gasoline. but your thinking is contradictory and faulty: you say you adhere to LNT principles but oh well your little use of acetone isn't hurting anything. sure, acetone exists in nature. but you're not using natural acetone on the rock. you're using synthetic acetone. it's precisely the same thinking as the person who says, "my little sharpie on one little rock isn't hurting anything".

we should all be asking more questions about the synthetic chemicals that populate our lives and why we're willing to defend our own acts of toxic pollution.

my apologies.....shelly ranting yet again because she thinks about this sh*t too much.
Last edited by disentangled on Fri May 07, 2021 12:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Drinking on a Peak: What it Takes

Post by disentangled »

RyGuy wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:31 am
to return the summit to it's original state
no offense, Ryan, but that's just absurd to think we can keep the summit in its original state when humans, including you, are on it.
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Re: Drinking on a Peak: What it Takes

Post by RyGuy »

shelly+ wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 12:36 pm
RyGuy wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:31 am
to return the summit to it's original state
no offense, Ryan, but that's just absurd to think we can keep the summit in its original state when humans, including you, are on it.
No offense taken. However I do think it's quite possible to help keep the summit in it's original state in so much as is possible. Following LNT principles is a good place to start. If nearly everyone in the back country followed LNT, we would have far fewer issues.
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Re: Drinking on a Peak: What it Takes

Post by Arndorfer »

shelly+ wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 8:35 am
RyGuy wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 8:22 am
highpilgrim wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 5:55 am 6A3FC92C-A45F-43DD-AB00-0B8340E75264.jpeg
just out of curiosity.... how is adding acetone to the environment (a flammable chemical) any better than sharpie on a rock?
While flammable, note that acetone is not classified as a hazardous air pollutant since it does not contribute to ozone. It also has very low toxicity.
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Re: Drinking on a Peak: What it Takes

Post by RyGuy »

shelly+ wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 12:33 pm
RyGuy wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:31 am
Shelly- As noted above, Acetone is an organic solvent and does exist in your body even. While it evaporates into the environment, so does gasoline, alcohol and many other cleaners/solvents. Lets be pragmatic here. I guarantee you release more toxic stuff into the air in a few days of normal activity than would be emitted by a few mL of Acetone. (Cleaners used at home/work, filling your car with gasoline, changing your oil, pesticides used in the yard on weeds, spraying insecticides, nail polish and nail polish remover (Also known as Acetone) painting, etc. In the overall scheme of things, it wouldn't be a big deal at all.

ah, Ryan.... that's just it. i question every chemical agent that i use. i don't use chemical cleaners at home. i don't use pesticides. i don't use insecticides. i don't use nail polish or nail polish remover. bloody hell, i've even used milk and earth pigment for paint in my house because, well, i can eat it! yes, i drive a car. yes, i use oil and gasoline. but your thinking is contradictory and faulty: you say you adhere to LNT principles but oh well your little use of acetone isn't hurting anything. sure, acetone exists in nature. but you're not using natural acetone on the rock. you're using synthetic acetone. it's precisely the same thinking as the person who says, "my little sharpie on one little rock isn't hurting anything".

we should all be asking more questions about the synthetic chemicals that populate our lives and why we're willing to defend our own acts of toxic pollution.

my apologies.....shelly ranting yet again because she thinks about this sh*t too much.
Shelly-Acetone as an organic compound as discussed above. It doesn't matter if it is created naturally or through synthesis. The molecule is the same, and the characteristics are the same. They are both the same regardless of how created.

Good for you if you truly don't use much in the way of chemicals. I'd guess you are in the extreme minority, unfortunately. And I'd hope more people took that approach as much as they could.

That said, my thinking is not contradictory and faulty. Despite striving to LNT in my backcountry use and in general, it is virtually impossible to leave ZERO trace. We both know that. But that doesn't mean we all should go "Ah hell, we'll leave a trace anyway, so who cares if we leave that bag of dog sh*t on the summit." The goal is to MINIMIZE the trace you leave. It's very possible to visit the summit of a peak and leave virtually no trace. It's not hard to avoid writing on rocks, leaving trash from your lunch, leaving dogsh*t in a bag. In this case, I have no qualms using Acetone to remove the Sharpie marks from a rock. It will remove most of the Sharpie and evaporate. Now, would I prefer to not use it? Of course. But in this case...I really don't see an issue with using it.
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Re: Drinking on a Peak: What it Takes

Post by mtree »

RyGuy wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 2:13 pm
Shelly-Acetone as an organic compound as discussed above. It doesn't matter if it is created naturally or through synthesis. The molecule is the same, and the characteristics are the same. They are both the same regardless of how created.
Just to chum the waters... whether created "naturally" or through chemical synthesis/production, yes, acetone has the same chemical structure.
Cyanide is produced by the human body as well. It doesn't mean dumping a gallon of it on a rock - or anywhere - is a good idea.

I'd say the scribbling of a Sharpie on a rock has far less environmental implications than cleaning it with acetone. Its just to us humans, the scribbling is visually offensive. Otherwise, its about as damaging as a footprint. Probably less. Think about that for a sec.

Its all about perspective.
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Re: Drinking on a Peak: What it Takes

Post by greenonion »

Bryan W wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:49 am
greenonion wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 8:36 am
Bryan W wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 12:53 am I've done summit beers twice. My first 14er was Elbert and Corona had a pretty good ad campaign going and we tried to duplicate it. We pretty much took a sip, dumped the beer, and hiked out. Then two years ago, now that I'm a craft beer kind of a guy, I took a good one with me (pictured below). If you've heard of Tree House Brewing, then you know they make great stuff. Me and Julius :-D enjoyed the summit alone for 20 minutes after having had the whole west ridge route to ourselves all day. I had another beer waiting for me in the creek close to the car for when I finished. Neither were great since they weren't as cold as I typically like.

Image
Did you Sharpie that rock, or am I falling for your trick? Bravo if a trick. Tabedouchebag to you if Sharpie.
Neither, but thanks for the assumptions. That was September 2019 and that rock was on the summit when I got there. I didn't really give it much thought as I figured the sun/winter would bleach it out. Weather does a great job of returning nature back to its original form.
Thanks! I respectfully retract the Tabedouchebag label from you... and re-direct to the actual perp, whoever it is. :mrgreen:
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Re: Drinking on a Peak: What it Takes

Post by disentangled »

RyGuy wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 2:13 pm
shelly+ wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 12:33 pm
RyGuy wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:31 am
Shelly- As noted above, Acetone is an organic solvent and does exist in your body even. While it evaporates into the environment, so does gasoline, alcohol and many other cleaners/solvents. Lets be pragmatic here. I guarantee you release more toxic stuff into the air in a few days of normal activity than would be emitted by a few mL of Acetone. (Cleaners used at home/work, filling your car with gasoline, changing your oil, pesticides used in the yard on weeds, spraying insecticides, nail polish and nail polish remover (Also known as Acetone) painting, etc. In the overall scheme of things, it wouldn't be a big deal at all.

ah, Ryan.... that's just it. i question every chemical agent that i use. i don't use chemical cleaners at home. i don't use pesticides. i don't use insecticides. i don't use nail polish or nail polish remover. bloody hell, i've even used milk and earth pigment for paint in my house because, well, i can eat it! yes, i drive a car. yes, i use oil and gasoline. but your thinking is contradictory and faulty: you say you adhere to LNT principles but oh well your little use of acetone isn't hurting anything. sure, acetone exists in nature. but you're not using natural acetone on the rock. you're using synthetic acetone. it's precisely the same thinking as the person who says, "my little sharpie on one little rock isn't hurting anything".

we should all be asking more questions about the synthetic chemicals that populate our lives and why we're willing to defend our own acts of toxic pollution.

my apologies.....shelly ranting yet again because she thinks about this sh*t too much.
Shelly-Acetone as an organic compound as discussed above. It doesn't matter if it is created naturally or through synthesis. The molecule is the same, and the characteristics are the same. They are both the same regardless of how created.

Good for you if you truly don't use much in the way of chemicals. I'd guess you are in the extreme minority, unfortunately. And I'd hope more people took that approach as much as they could.

That said, my thinking is not contradictory and faulty. Despite striving to LNT in my backcountry use and in general, it is virtually impossible to leave ZERO trace. We both know that. But that doesn't mean we all should go "Ah hell, we'll leave a trace anyway, so who cares if we leave that bag of dog sh*t on the summit." The goal is to MINIMIZE the trace you leave. It's very possible to visit the summit of a peak and leave virtually no trace. It's not hard to avoid writing on rocks, leaving trash from your lunch, leaving dogsh*t in a bag. In this case, I have no qualms using Acetone to remove the Sharpie marks from a rock. It will remove most of the Sharpie and evaporate. Now, would I prefer to not use it? Of course. But in this case...I really don't see an issue with using it.
good dialogue here, Ryan and mtree and others. i appreciate that.
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Re: Drinking on a Peak: What it Takes

Post by Presto »

Can we please get back on topic when the topic is so important to a lot of us who do imbibe on summits and feel that it at least should be some sort of premium, worthy experience? :roll: :wink:

by Gandalf69 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:42 am
"Coors light or coors banquet should be a automatic fail. Only young college kids with no craft beer experience drink that. It's also a tourist beer for tourists who want to "taste Colorado". It's little better than piss in a can. If I was lost in the Sahara desert with no water I would still not drink a Coors." \:D/

by interloper » Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:02 am
"I'm coming out of post hibernation just to call you a dingus. Your opinion is bad and you should feel bad, Mr. Beer Snobbington." #-o =; :-s :wft: :yawn:

Well, Mr. Interloper, as a PROUD BEER SNOBBINGTON, I am coming out of hibernation to tell you that I thoroughly agree with Gandalf69 regarding consuming swill water of any kind ... and I agree with the OP that ABV is a major component of having true summit joy. :iluvbeer: :iluvbeer: :iluvbeer: Of course, I am unique in that I have never tasted a coors, bud, miller, michelob, pbr, or any other "mainstream" beer that is not of the "ABV threshold of my personal requirements for pleasure". Those who know me are not shocked by this comments. 8)

Happy trails! :-D
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Re: Drinking on a Peak: What it Takes

Post by Dave B »

I'm definitely in the camp of drinking beer others tell me I should drink based on their personal preferences, rather than prioritizing my own...

Seriously though, Coors/Coors Light are the bees knees, so are craft beers - well some of them. It's amazing how, when you stop sniffing your own farts for five seconds, you can find pleasure in just about anything. I also drink cheap and expensive whiskey but always wine from a box.
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Re: Drinking on a Peak: What it Takes

Post by highpilgrim »

Dave B wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 9:09 am It's amazing how, when you stop sniffing your own farts for five seconds, you can find pleasure in just about anything.
My farts don't smell so bad. What're YOU eating; that could be the problem.
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Re: Drinking on a Peak: What it Takes

Post by Dave B »

highpilgrim wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 9:15 am
Dave B wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 9:09 am It's amazing how, when you stop sniffing your own farts for five seconds, you can find pleasure in just about anything.
My farts don't smell so bad. What're YOU eating; that could be the problem.
Everyone likes their own cookin'. But, it could be the boxed wine.
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