Drinking on a Peak: What it Takes

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disentangled
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Re: Drinking on a Peak: What it Takes

Post by disentangled »

RyGuy wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 8:22 am
highpilgrim wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 5:55 am 6A3FC92C-A45F-43DD-AB00-0B8340E75264.jpeg

This will make for an interesting day.

Discuss.
Not much to discuss. It just means someone needs to take some acetone and a scrub brush up. (Or just remove the rock from the summit area, turn it face down and put some rocks over it.)
If it's still there in a couple months, I'll have a couple friends take care of it.
just out of curiosity.... how is adding acetone to the environment (a flammable chemical) any better than sharpie on a rock?
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Re: Drinking on a Peak: What it Takes

Post by greenonion »

Bryan W wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 12:53 am I've done summit beers twice. My first 14er was Elbert and Corona had a pretty good ad campaign going and we tried to duplicate it. We pretty much took a sip, dumped the beer, and hiked out. Then two years ago, now that I'm a craft beer kind of a guy, I took a good one with me (pictured below). If you've heard of Tree House Brewing, then you know they make great stuff. Me and Julius :-D enjoyed the summit alone for 20 minutes after having had the whole west ridge route to ourselves all day. I had another beer waiting for me in the creek close to the car for when I finished. Neither were great since they weren't as cold as I typically like.

Image
Did you Sharpie that rock, or am I falling for your trick? Bravo if a trick. Tabedouchebag to you if Sharpie.
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Re: Drinking on a Peak: What it Takes

Post by RyGuy »

shelly+ wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 8:35 am
RyGuy wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 8:22 am
highpilgrim wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 5:55 am 6A3FC92C-A45F-43DD-AB00-0B8340E75264.jpeg

This will make for an interesting day.

Discuss.
Not much to discuss. It just means someone needs to take some acetone and a scrub brush up. (Or just remove the rock from the summit area, turn it face down and put some rocks over it.)
If it's still there in a couple months, I'll have a couple friends take care of it.
just out of curiosity.... how is adding acetone to the environment (a flammable chemical) any better than sharpie on a rock?
Shelly- Acetone is a volatile solvent. It will dissolve/breakdown the Sharpie material and then evaporate. So it doesn't remain in the environment and the rock is returned to it's pre-vandalized state.
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Re: Drinking on a Peak: What it Takes

Post by Aphelion »

shelly+ wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 8:35 am
just out of curiosity.... how is adding acetone to the environment (a flammable chemical) any better than sharpie on a rock?
Acetone is a naturally-occurring material. It evaporates quickly, and subsequently degrades in UV light. Scrub the graffiti off, and the solvent will be entirely gone before you get half-way back to the trailhead.
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Re: Drinking on a Peak: What it Takes

Post by disentangled »

with due respect, Ryan and Aphelion..... just because it goes *poof* makes it better? if it evaporates and degrades, it goes somewhere. where does it go? somewhere in the environment. i mean, if it's so very safe, as you seem to be arguing, can i eat it?
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Re: Drinking on a Peak: What it Takes

Post by mtree »

I'm guessing the photo is faked. As a side note, I don't think anyone on this post has actually tried to wash graffiti off a stone. Rock is too rough and porous for acetone to be effective. It evaporates too fast. Doesn't work. I've tried it. Tried lots of solvents. Very difficult. You'd have to use "Graffiti Remover", warm water, and a pressure spray. Good luck hauling all that up there.

Why do you think it costs so much to remove graffiti from city structures?
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Re: Drinking on a Peak: What it Takes

Post by Aphelion »

mtree wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 9:17 am I'm guessing the photo is faked. As a side note, I don't think anyone on this post has actually tried to wash graffiti off a stone. Rock is too rough and porous for acetone to be effective. It evaporates too fast. Doesn't work. I've tried it. Tried lots of solvents. Very difficult. You'd have to use "Graffiti Remover", warm water, and a pressure spray. Good luck hauling all that up there.

Why do you think it costs so much to remove graffiti from city structures?
You're right, I haven't actually tried removing sharpie from a rock before. Didn't realize it was that difficult. Can you use a brush with a solvent, or does it really require a pressure wash?
shelly+ wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 9:13 am with due respect, Ryan and Aphelion..... just because it goes *poof* makes it better? if it evaporates and degrades, it goes somewhere. where does it go? somewhere in the environment. i mean, if it's so very safe, as you seem to be arguing, can i eat it?
Yes, that does make it better. Acetone is all over the place. You've got a bunch in your blood right now. As with all other things, the dose makes the toxin. I don't suggest chugging it, but minute amounts are harmless. A couple mL of acetone that evaporates and gets diluted into a few cubic miles of air by the mountain winds, while being degraded into methane, isn't going to hurt anything.
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Re: Drinking on a Peak: What it Takes

Post by disentangled »

Aphelion wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 10:07 am
Yes, that does make it better. Acetone is all over the place. You've got a bunch in your blood right now. As with all other things, the dose makes the toxin. I don't suggest chugging it, but minute amounts are harmless. A couple mL of acetone that evaporates and gets diluted into a few cubic miles of air by the mountain winds, while being degraded into methane, isn't going to hurt anything.
respectfully disagree. so what you're saying is my little piece of trash that i leave behind on the mountain in violation of LNT principles isn't going to hurt anything? it's just when it's a lot of trash that it matters? i just find it odd that the antidote to the LNT violation of sharpie on a rock is a chemical solvent.
Last edited by disentangled on Fri May 07, 2021 11:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Drinking on a Peak: What it Takes

Post by mtree »

Aphelion wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 10:07 am
mtree wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 9:17 am I'm guessing the photo is faked. As a side note, I don't think anyone on this post has actually tried to wash graffiti off a stone. Rock is too rough and porous for acetone to be effective. It evaporates too fast. Doesn't work. I've tried it. Tried lots of solvents. Very difficult. You'd have to use "Graffiti Remover", warm water, and a pressure spray. Good luck hauling all that up there.

Why do you think it costs so much to remove graffiti from city structures?
You're right, I haven't actually tried removing sharpie from a rock before. Didn't realize it was that difficult. Can you use a brush with a solvent, or does it really require a pressure wash?
Guess it depends on the rock/surface. Solid quartz, maybe. Most rock in the mountains is a mix of stuff. I'm not a geologist so don't know the technical terms. Generally the harder and smoother the rock, the easier it would be to remove. I've tried acetone, Goof Off/TCE, isopropyl alcohol, mineral spirits, paint thinner, WD40, among other things. Nothing worked. You can remove some off the surface, but most remains. Brush, rag, whatever. Doesn't matter.
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Re: Drinking on a Peak: What it Takes

Post by RyGuy »

shelly+ wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:00 am
Aphelion wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 10:07 am
Yes, that does make it better. Acetone is all over the place. You've got a bunch in your blood right now. As with all other things, the dose makes the toxin. I don't suggest chugging it, but minute amounts are harmless. A couple mL of acetone that evaporates and gets diluted into a few cubic miles of air by the mountain winds, while being degraded into methane, isn't going to hurt anything.
respectfully disagree. so what you're saying is my little piece of trash that i leave behind on the mountain in violation of LNT principles isn't going to hurt anything? it's just when it's a lot of trash that it matters? i just find it odd that the antidote to the LNT violation of sharpie on a rock is a chemical solvent.
Shelly- As noted above, Acetone is an organic solvent and does exist in your body even. While it evaporates into the environment, so does gasoline, alcohol and many other cleaners/solvents. Lets be pragmatic here. I guarantee you release more toxic stuff into the air in a few days of normal activity than would be emitted by a few mL of Acetone. (Cleaners used at home/work, filling your car with gasoline, changing your oil, pesticides used in the yard on weeds, spraying insecticides, nail polish and nail polish remover (Also known as Acetone) painting, etc. In the overall scheme of things, it wouldn't be a big deal at all.

Would I prefer to use it at all? No.
Is it less impactful than smashing the rock to pieces to effectively remove the Sharpie marks from being noticed? Yes.
Would I rather someone just not be a dipsh*t and not write on things in nature with a Sharpie? Yes.

We can sit here and debate to what degree things violate LNT ethics all day, but the end goal I would have is to return the summit to it's original state such that man-made markings on a rock aren't visible. Using Acetone and a wire brush is probably the best way to do that.
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Re: Drinking on a Peak: What it Takes

Post by Bryan W »

greenonion wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 8:36 am
Bryan W wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 12:53 am I've done summit beers twice. My first 14er was Elbert and Corona had a pretty good ad campaign going and we tried to duplicate it. We pretty much took a sip, dumped the beer, and hiked out. Then two years ago, now that I'm a craft beer kind of a guy, I took a good one with me (pictured below). If you've heard of Tree House Brewing, then you know they make great stuff. Me and Julius :-D enjoyed the summit alone for 20 minutes after having had the whole west ridge route to ourselves all day. I had another beer waiting for me in the creek close to the car for when I finished. Neither were great since they weren't as cold as I typically like.

Image
Did you Sharpie that rock, or am I falling for your trick? Bravo if a trick. Tabedouchebag to you if Sharpie.
Neither, but thanks for the assumptions. That was September 2019 and that rock was on the summit when I got there. I didn't really give it much thought as I figured the sun/winter would bleach it out. Weather does a great job of returning nature back to its original form.
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Re: Drinking on a Peak: What it Takes

Post by Salient »

RyGuy wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 8:22 am
highpilgrim wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 5:55 am 6A3FC92C-A45F-43DD-AB00-0B8340E75264.jpeg

This will make for an interesting day.

Discuss.
Not much to discuss. It just means someone needs to take some acetone and a scrub brush up. (Or just remove the rock from the summit area, turn it face down and put some rocks over it.)
If it's still there in a couple months, I'll have a couple friends take care of it.
Given that the image is 2 years old, I assume somebody has already taken care of it. Either that or weather has taken care of it.
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