It's Getting Harder to Breathe on Mount Everest

Colorado peak questions, condition requests and other info.
Forum rules
  • This is a mountaineering forum, so please keep your posts on-topic. Posts do not all have to be related to the 14ers but should at least be mountaineering-related.
  • Personal attacks and confrontational behavior will result in removal from the forum at the discretion of the administrators.
  • Do not use this forum to advertise, sell photos or other products or promote a commercial website.
  • Posts will be removed at the discretion of the site administrator or moderator(s), including: Troll posts, posts pushing political views or religious beliefs, and posts with the purpose of instigating conflict within the forum.
    For more details, please see the Terms of Use you agreed to when joining the forum.
User avatar
AnnaG22
Posts: 814
Joined: 9/16/2013
14ers: 58  7  20 
13ers: 124 3 6
Trip Reports (5)
 
Contact:

It's Getting Harder to Breathe on Mount Everest

Post by AnnaG22 »

While I couldn't resist the subject phraseology, it actually sounds pretty serious and scary (COVID outbreak): https://www.outsideonline.com/2422982/c ... aign=tweet
"The love of wilderness is more than a hunger for what is always beyond reach; it is also an expression of loyalty to the earth, the earth which bore us and sustains us, the only home we shall ever know, the only paradise we ever need – if only we had the eyes to see." -Ed Abbey

"I get scared sometimes—lots of times—but it's not bad. You know? I feel close to myself. When I'm out there at night, I feel close to my own body, I can feel my blood moving, my skin and my fingernails, everything, it's like I'm full of electricity and I'm glowing in the dark—I'm on fire almost—I'm burning away into nothing—but it doesn't matter because I know exactly who I am." from The Things They Carried
User avatar
cottonmountaineering
Posts: 849
Joined: 5/11/2018
14ers: 58  7  18 
13ers: 178 38 31
Trip Reports (1)
 

Re: It's Getting Harder to Breathe on Mount Everest

Post by cottonmountaineering »

even without covid, its a good idea to avoid close contact with other teams to avoid getting sick. everest is a weird place because so many porters/trekkers are coming in and out of base camp regularly
User avatar
justiner
Posts: 4389
Joined: 8/28/2010
14ers: 58  8 
13ers: 138
Trip Reports (39)
 
Contact:

Re: It's Getting Harder to Breathe on Mount Everest

Post by justiner »

Posner and the good Dr. seems to be chillin' at a coffee shop, playin' guitar :lol:
User avatar
nyker
Posts: 3227
Joined: 12/5/2007
14ers: 58 
13ers: 25
Trip Reports (69)
 

Re: It's Getting Harder to Breathe on Mount Everest

Post by nyker »

cottonmountaineering wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:11 pm even without covid, its a good idea to avoid close contact with other teams to avoid getting sick. everest is a weird place because so many porters/trekkers are coming in and out of base camp regularly
yea, not the best time to go commit to an Everest expedition, ](*,) especially when your body would be stressed from the trip, altitude, exertion, and immune system weakened...

Their neighbor doing things like this don't help either:
https://www.reuters.com/world/india/sup ... 021-04-14/
timisimaginary
Posts: 777
Joined: 11/19/2017
14ers: 3 
13ers: 1
Trip Reports (2)
 

Re: It's Getting Harder to Breathe on Mount Everest

Post by timisimaginary »

i can't help but wonder about all the oxygen canisters they've got stockpiled at EBC and on the mountain, just for people to climb with. seems like all that oxygen could be doing a lot more good in India, or, pretty soon, in Kathmandu, where people are literally suffocating to death for lack of oxygen. Everest climbers already have a reputation for selfishness and putting their summit desires ahead of other people's lives, but at least until now, it's been at the expense of other climbers on the mountain, not sick people off the mountain. i don't even know if the oxygen canisters they have are useful or compatible for medical purposes, or what kind of logistics would be involved in getting it off the mountain and down to the cities where it's needed. but it won't matter, because people climbing Everest with oxygen while other people nearby are suffocating to death is going to be a real bad look for those climbers and their companies. just imagine that famous 2019 photo of a line of climbers with oxygen strapped to their packs, but this time with the image of dying COVID patients gasping for air in the hospital right next to it.

i have a lot of respect for the companies like Adventure Consultants and Alpenglow who stayed away from Everest this season. they're going to look really smart in retrospect. AC even suspended their entire company's operations for the year rather than take the risk. it's a tough choice for these companies, with the pandemic chaos surrounding travel and such still swirling, between the health and safety of their clients and employees (and residents of some of the very remote areas they operate in) vs. the ability to keep their company afloat. so it's hard to assign too much blame to some of the operators, who may not have survived economically without at least trying for Everest this year. but it may end up a gamble that wasn't worth taking.

flights in and out of Nepal are now suspended at least through May 15. so i guess a lot of them are stuck there now anyway. at least Mike Posner has a captive audience to play to for the next few weeks.
"The decay and disintegration of this culture is astonishingly amusing if you're emotionally detached from it." - George Carlin
User avatar
cottonmountaineering
Posts: 849
Joined: 5/11/2018
14ers: 58  7  18 
13ers: 178 38 31
Trip Reports (1)
 

Re: It's Getting Harder to Breathe on Mount Everest

Post by cottonmountaineering »

timisimaginary wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 1:42 pm i can't help but wonder about all the oxygen canisters they've got stockpiled at EBC and on the mountain, just for people to climb with. seems like all that oxygen could be doing a lot more good in India, or, pretty soon, in Kathmandu, where people are literally suffocating to death for lack of oxygen. Everest climbers already have a reputation for selfishness and putting their summit desires ahead of other people's lives, but at least until now, it's been at the expense of other climbers on the mountain, not sick people off the mountain. i don't even know if the oxygen canisters they have are useful or compatible for medical purposes, or what kind of logistics would be involved in getting it off the mountain and down to the cities where it's needed. but it won't matter, because people climbing Everest with oxygen while other people nearby are suffocating to death is going to be a real bad look for those climbers and their companies. just imagine that famous 2019 photo of a line of climbers with oxygen strapped to their packs, but this time with the image of dying COVID patients gasping for air in the hospital right next to it.

i have a lot of respect for the companies like Adventure Consultants and Alpenglow who stayed away from Everest this season. they're going to look really smart in retrospect. AC even suspended their entire company's operations for the year rather than take the risk. it's a tough choice for these companies, with the pandemic chaos surrounding travel and such still swirling, between the health and safety of their clients and employees (and residents of some of the very remote areas they operate in) vs. the ability to keep their company afloat. so it's hard to assign too much blame to some of the operators, who may not have survived economically without at least trying for Everest this year. but it may end up a gamble that wasn't worth taking.

flights in and out of Nepal are now suspended at least through May 15. so i guess a lot of them are stuck there now anyway. at least Mike Posner has a captive audience to play to for the next few weeks.
i know hating on everest climbers is popular but the oxygen tanks they use would be a drop in the bucket for what is needed

tourism is a significant driver of the economy in nepal (~10% GDP) so it is likely driving a lot of people further into poverty suspending that industry. i dont think vaccinated everest climbers are going to be burdening the medical system there, but you can make your own decision about that
timisimaginary
Posts: 777
Joined: 11/19/2017
14ers: 3 
13ers: 1
Trip Reports (2)
 

Re: It's Getting Harder to Breathe on Mount Everest

Post by timisimaginary »

cottonmountaineering wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 1:51 pm
timisimaginary wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 1:42 pm i can't help but wonder about all the oxygen canisters they've got stockpiled at EBC and on the mountain, just for people to climb with. seems like all that oxygen could be doing a lot more good in India, or, pretty soon, in Kathmandu, where people are literally suffocating to death for lack of oxygen. Everest climbers already have a reputation for selfishness and putting their summit desires ahead of other people's lives, but at least until now, it's been at the expense of other climbers on the mountain, not sick people off the mountain. i don't even know if the oxygen canisters they have are useful or compatible for medical purposes, or what kind of logistics would be involved in getting it off the mountain and down to the cities where it's needed. but it won't matter, because people climbing Everest with oxygen while other people nearby are suffocating to death is going to be a real bad look for those climbers and their companies. just imagine that famous 2019 photo of a line of climbers with oxygen strapped to their packs, but this time with the image of dying COVID patients gasping for air in the hospital right next to it.

i have a lot of respect for the companies like Adventure Consultants and Alpenglow who stayed away from Everest this season. they're going to look really smart in retrospect. AC even suspended their entire company's operations for the year rather than take the risk. it's a tough choice for these companies, with the pandemic chaos surrounding travel and such still swirling, between the health and safety of their clients and employees (and residents of some of the very remote areas they operate in) vs. the ability to keep their company afloat. so it's hard to assign too much blame to some of the operators, who may not have survived economically without at least trying for Everest this year. but it may end up a gamble that wasn't worth taking.

flights in and out of Nepal are now suspended at least through May 15. so i guess a lot of them are stuck there now anyway. at least Mike Posner has a captive audience to play to for the next few weeks.
i know hating on everest climbers is popular but the oxygen tanks they use would be a drop in the bucket for what is needed

tourism is a significant driver of the economy in nepal (~10% GDP) so it is likely driving a lot of people further into poverty suspending that industry. i dont think vaccinated everest climbers are going to be burdening the medical system there, but you can make your own decision about that
it's not a drop in the bucket to the person lying in a hospital bed gasping for air. no, it's not going to save every single person, or even a large percentage of people, who need oxygen. but even if it only saved, say, 10 peoples' lives, are those 10 peoples' lives less valuable than somebody's desire to climb a mountain?
"The decay and disintegration of this culture is astonishingly amusing if you're emotionally detached from it." - George Carlin
User avatar
cottonmountaineering
Posts: 849
Joined: 5/11/2018
14ers: 58  7  18 
13ers: 178 38 31
Trip Reports (1)
 

Re: It's Getting Harder to Breathe on Mount Everest

Post by cottonmountaineering »

timisimaginary wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 1:57 pm
cottonmountaineering wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 1:51 pm
timisimaginary wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 1:42 pm i can't help but wonder about all the oxygen canisters they've got stockpiled at EBC and on the mountain, just for people to climb with. seems like all that oxygen could be doing a lot more good in India, or, pretty soon, in Kathmandu, where people are literally suffocating to death for lack of oxygen. Everest climbers already have a reputation for selfishness and putting their summit desires ahead of other people's lives, but at least until now, it's been at the expense of other climbers on the mountain, not sick people off the mountain. i don't even know if the oxygen canisters they have are useful or compatible for medical purposes, or what kind of logistics would be involved in getting it off the mountain and down to the cities where it's needed. but it won't matter, because people climbing Everest with oxygen while other people nearby are suffocating to death is going to be a real bad look for those climbers and their companies. just imagine that famous 2019 photo of a line of climbers with oxygen strapped to their packs, but this time with the image of dying COVID patients gasping for air in the hospital right next to it.

i have a lot of respect for the companies like Adventure Consultants and Alpenglow who stayed away from Everest this season. they're going to look really smart in retrospect. AC even suspended their entire company's operations for the year rather than take the risk. it's a tough choice for these companies, with the pandemic chaos surrounding travel and such still swirling, between the health and safety of their clients and employees (and residents of some of the very remote areas they operate in) vs. the ability to keep their company afloat. so it's hard to assign too much blame to some of the operators, who may not have survived economically without at least trying for Everest this year. but it may end up a gamble that wasn't worth taking.

flights in and out of Nepal are now suspended at least through May 15. so i guess a lot of them are stuck there now anyway. at least Mike Posner has a captive audience to play to for the next few weeks.
i know hating on everest climbers is popular but the oxygen tanks they use would be a drop in the bucket for what is needed

tourism is a significant driver of the economy in nepal (~10% GDP) so it is likely driving a lot of people further into poverty suspending that industry. i dont think vaccinated everest climbers are going to be burdening the medical system there, but you can make your own decision about that
it's not a drop in the bucket to the person lying in a hospital bed gasping for air. no, it's not going to save every single person, or even a large percentage of people, who need oxygen. but even if it only saved, say, 10 peoples' lives, are those 10 peoples' lives less valuable than somebody's desire to climb a mountain?
again not trying to downplay the situation there, it sounds like they dont have enough beds, medical staff, or oxygen refilling capacity. just wanted to mention that nepal has zero safety net, having such a significant part of their economy go away will literally leave people hungry/homeless
https://kathmandupost.com/money/2019/05 ... ear-report
timisimaginary
Posts: 777
Joined: 11/19/2017
14ers: 3 
13ers: 1
Trip Reports (2)
 

Re: It's Getting Harder to Breathe on Mount Everest

Post by timisimaginary »

cottonmountaineering wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 2:07 pm
timisimaginary wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 1:57 pm
cottonmountaineering wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 1:51 pm

i know hating on everest climbers is popular but the oxygen tanks they use would be a drop in the bucket for what is needed

tourism is a significant driver of the economy in nepal (~10% GDP) so it is likely driving a lot of people further into poverty suspending that industry. i dont think vaccinated everest climbers are going to be burdening the medical system there, but you can make your own decision about that
it's not a drop in the bucket to the person lying in a hospital bed gasping for air. no, it's not going to save every single person, or even a large percentage of people, who need oxygen. but even if it only saved, say, 10 peoples' lives, are those 10 peoples' lives less valuable than somebody's desire to climb a mountain?
again not trying to downplay the situation there, it sounds like they dont have enough beds, medical staff, or oxygen refilling capacity. just wanted to mention that nepal has zero safety net, having such a significant part of their economy go away will literally leave people hungry/homeless
https://kathmandupost.com/money/2019/05 ... ear-report
Yes, i understand, Nepal's got huge issues beyond COVID. the loss of last year's climbing/trekking season (on top of the 2015 earthquake they're still recovering from) was economically devastating. and while the Everest climbing season is as popular as ever, setting a new record for permits this year once again, the trekking season this year has apparently been dismal once again (not surprising that climbers are more driven and willing to take risks than the average trekker). i think you have to look, though, at who benefits most from the climbing season continuing on. the teahouses and porters and guides have already made whatever money they're going to make from this year's climbing season. those climbers are in EBC now, no new ones are arriving now that travel has been shut down, so the common Nepali citizen wouldn't lose any money if the climbing season were to shut down now. the corrupt Nepali gov't, on the other hand, might have more to lose. they make a lot more on climbing than they do on trekking, with the unlimited overpriced permits they sell.

on the other hand, are the trekkers who stayed away this spring season more or less likely to return based on the bad publicity of an Everest season wracked with COVID? those kinds of headlines seem more likely to keep trekkers away for longer, and the local communities, that make a lot more money from thousands of trekkers than they do from a few hundred climbers, are hurt more the longer trekkers and common tourists stay away. to me, it looks like the Nepali gov't is more invested in gambling on a "successful" climbing season, at whatever cost to their trekking and standard tourist economy, because they benefit more directly from it.

no one climber, or guiding company, is ever going to fix Nepal's political and economic issues though. all i know is, if i was a climber sitting in EBC right now, with 8 or 10 or 12 oxygen canisters designated for my use, and i thought there was a chance those canisters could save somebody's life back down in KTM or elsewhere, i'd have a hard time justifying it to myself to continue my climb. i guess that's a question for each individual climber's conscience. maybe it's not as immediate as encountering a struggling climber on the way to the summit and having to decide whether to abandon your summit attempt to give them oxygen and help them down, but the end result is the same when it comes to saving a life. i suppose you could say the same thing about the $70,000+ that most of those people spend to climb in the first place, and how many lives that money could potentially save. but there's a difference between money (which is plentiful in the world, just poorly distributed) vs. something like oxygen for which there's an immediate need and current shortage.
"The decay and disintegration of this culture is astonishingly amusing if you're emotionally detached from it." - George Carlin
User avatar
cottonmountaineering
Posts: 849
Joined: 5/11/2018
14ers: 58  7  18 
13ers: 178 38 31
Trip Reports (1)
 

Re: It's Getting Harder to Breathe on Mount Everest

Post by cottonmountaineering »

timisimaginary wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 2:37 pm
cottonmountaineering wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 2:07 pm
timisimaginary wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 1:57 pm

it's not a drop in the bucket to the person lying in a hospital bed gasping for air. no, it's not going to save every single person, or even a large percentage of people, who need oxygen. but even if it only saved, say, 10 peoples' lives, are those 10 peoples' lives less valuable than somebody's desire to climb a mountain?
again not trying to downplay the situation there, it sounds like they dont have enough beds, medical staff, or oxygen refilling capacity. just wanted to mention that nepal has zero safety net, having such a significant part of their economy go away will literally leave people hungry/homeless
https://kathmandupost.com/money/2019/05 ... ear-report
Yes, i understand, Nepal's got huge issues beyond COVID. the loss of last year's climbing/trekking season (on top of the 2015 earthquake they're still recovering from) was economically devastating. and while the Everest climbing season is as popular as ever, setting a new record for permits this year once again, the trekking season this year has apparently been dismal once again (not surprising that climbers are more driven and willing to take risks than the average trekker). i think you have to look, though, at who benefits most from the climbing season continuing on. the teahouses and porters and guides have already made whatever money they're going to make from this year's climbing season. those climbers are in EBC now, no new ones are arriving now that travel has been shut down, so the common Nepali citizen wouldn't lose any money if the climbing season were to shut down now. the corrupt Nepali gov't, on the other hand, might have more to lose. they make a lot more on climbing than they do on trekking, with the unlimited overpriced permits they sell.

on the other hand, are the trekkers who stayed away this spring season more or less likely to return based on the bad publicity of an Everest season wracked with COVID? those kinds of headlines seem more likely to keep trekkers away for longer, and the local communities, that make a lot more money from thousands of trekkers than they do from a few hundred climbers, are hurt more the longer trekkers and common tourists stay away. to me, it looks like the Nepali gov't is more invested in gambling on a "successful" climbing season, at whatever cost to their trekking and standard tourist economy, because they benefit more directly from it.

no one climber, or guiding company, is ever going to fix Nepal's political and economic issues though. all i know is, if i was a climber sitting in EBC right now, with 8 or 10 or 12 oxygen canisters designated for my use, and i thought there was a chance those canisters could save somebody's life back down in KTM or elsewhere, i'd have a hard time justifying it to myself to continue my climb. i guess that's a question for each individual climber's conscience. maybe it's not as immediate as encountering a struggling climber on the way to the summit and having to decide whether to abandon your summit attempt to give them oxygen and help them down, but the end result is the same when it comes to saving a life. i suppose you could say the same thing about the $70,000+ that most of those people spend to climb in the first place, and how many lives that money could potentially save. but there's a difference between money (which is plentiful in the world, just poorly distributed) vs. something like oxygen for which there's an immediate need and current shortage.
in my view, there is no difference between a westerner attempting everest with oxygen vs a company that didnt go this year and has their tanks sitting in storage.

nepal has so many problems and everest climbers is pretty far down the list in my opinion
timisimaginary
Posts: 777
Joined: 11/19/2017
14ers: 3 
13ers: 1
Trip Reports (2)
 

Re: It's Getting Harder to Breathe on Mount Everest

Post by timisimaginary »

cottonmountaineering wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 2:52 pm in my view, there is no difference between a westerner attempting everest with oxygen vs a company that didnt go this year and has their tanks sitting in storage.
the differences, as i see them:

1) i have no idea how many, if any, canisters of oxygen any given company has sitting in storage. for a company like AC, who decided well in advance they were sitting out this season, and have suspended operations, why would they have any? i admit i have no clue how these companies prepare for these expeditions, but i would think single-use elements like oxygen would be some of the last things purchased.

2) accessibility: if i'm a climbing company in the US, or Australia, and i have a warehouse full of oxygen, i imagine it would take a lot longer and be more expensive to ship that oxygen all the way to Nepal, whereas the oxygen already at EBC is just a heli flight away. now, KTM isn't as bad as India yet, so maybe they don't feel they need to ship it out yet. but if it is needed, it will be a lot quicker and easier to get it there than from overseas warehouses. now, if there are climbing companies that have stockpiles sitting in Nepali warehouses, then there is no difference, and i would hope those companies would be willing to donate that oxygen if it could help too.

3) visibility: aside from all practical concerns, it just paints mountaineering in a bad light. people climbing Everest on oxygen this year is going to result in bad publicity for the climbers, deserved or not.
cottonmountaineering wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 2:52 pm nepal has so many problems and everest climbers is pretty far down the list in my opinion
if there are big problems that are outside a person's ability to solve, that shouldn't stop anyone from solving a smaller problem they DO have the ability to solve. especially when that "small" problem is saving a person's life.
"The decay and disintegration of this culture is astonishingly amusing if you're emotionally detached from it." - George Carlin
User avatar
cottonmountaineering
Posts: 849
Joined: 5/11/2018
14ers: 58  7  18 
13ers: 178 38 31
Trip Reports (1)
 

Re: It's Getting Harder to Breathe on Mount Everest

Post by cottonmountaineering »

timisimaginary wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 3:16 pm
cottonmountaineering wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 2:52 pm in my view, there is no difference between a westerner attempting everest with oxygen vs a company that didnt go this year and has their tanks sitting in storage.
the differences, as i see them:

1) i have no idea how many, if any, canisters of oxygen any given company has sitting in storage. for a company like AC, who decided well in advance they were sitting out this season, and have suspended operations, why would they have any? i admit i have no clue how these companies prepare for these expeditions, but i would think single-use elements like oxygen would be some of the last things purchased.

2) accessibility: if i'm a climbing company in the US, or Australia, and i have a warehouse full of oxygen, i imagine it would take a lot longer and be more expensive to ship that oxygen all the way to Nepal, whereas the oxygen already at EBC is just a heli flight away. now, KTM isn't as bad as India yet, so maybe they don't feel they need to ship it out yet. but if it is needed, it will be a lot quicker and easier to get it there than from overseas warehouses. now, if there are climbing companies that have stockpiles sitting in Nepali warehouses, then there is no difference, and i would hope those companies would be willing to donate that oxygen if it could help too.

3) visibility: aside from all practical concerns, it just paints mountaineering in a bad light. people climbing Everest on oxygen this year is going to result in bad publicity for the climbers, deserved or not.
cottonmountaineering wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 2:52 pm nepal has so many problems and everest climbers is pretty far down the list in my opinion
if there are big problems that are outside a person's ability to solve, that shouldn't stop anyone from solving a smaller problem they DO have the ability to solve. especially when that "small" problem is saving a person's life.
the difference between the amount of oxygen allocated to nepali citizens is 0 whether the expeditions ran or not (well, actually, sherpas will be using oxygen for the climb)

the rest is bad press IMO
Post Reply