Ultramarathon Deaths

[Wentzl]

This story seems unimaginable, yet here it is:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... ld-weather

Really brings home the fact that getting up high and not being prepared for weather can have real consequences.

[timisimaginary]

not a lot of reliable information right now, this being China and all. but it sounds clear that the race should have been cancelled. they knew bad weather was coming in, even if they didn't know exactly how bad it would end up being. they sent these runners off into a meat grinder. irresponsible to say the least, to send them out in such rough, exposed terrain under those conditions. runners were required to have space blankets, but winds were so bad those space blankets were torn to shreds.

[Trotter]

I think it goes to show that fast and light trailrunning with no emergency gear doesn't always mean safe

[Jorts]

I think it goes to show that fast and light trailrunning with no emergency gear doesn't always mean safe

There are generally two philosophies to safety in the mountains: Siege/Expedition approach where you have every supply for every contingency - like Hillary and most of the early mountaineers who have the first ascents; and Alpine approach where you move light and fast limiting exposure to hazard like avalanches, weather, exposure - like Messner and Kukuczka and the greats who were the firsts for quantity of summits and no Os.

You can apply these philosophies to mountaineering even on a smaller scale like out here - where some folks are prepared to comfortably spend the night and have a hot meal on the summit - and on the far other end of the spectrum - run the summits in little more than a tank top and split shorts.

But there's still a lot in between those two ends. I prefer fast and light to limit exposure and not piss off my wife at home by being out all day but I still carry a first aid kit, extra clothing and a water filter just in case s**t hits the fan.

Guess it's all risk/reward. Hard to equate a running race where participants put a lot of trust in the organizers for their safety to mountain runners who bear full responsibility for anything that happens.

[justiner]

I do hope that some sort of investigation happens to really understand what went wrong. This is the type of tragedy that just shouldn't happen. There's not many places in Europe where you run an ultra in the middle of nowhere - or really in the States. You do PB100, and it's almost a 50 mile party - if you hurt yourself, SAR is there. If the weather moves in, they're prepared because guess what? Weather moves in. UTMB has all sorts of requirements on what you must take, since you're going around a 15k' mountain. SAR in that area is without equal.

If it's because ultra trail running is new(er) in China, and the needed infrastructure to make a race go without I dunno... death isn't there, then it may be time to reevaluate putting on a race.

Anyways, total tragedy. It's really hard to hear of this news. No one goes into a trail race like this thinking things will turn life or death. Mostly thinking about that flat coke and noodles at the aid stations.

[justiner]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... ramarathon

[thebeave7]

I think it goes to show that fast and light trailrunning with no emergency gear doesn't always mean safe

Things aren't black and white like that though. Sure there are some that go into the mountains with no gear. But I know many others for whom fast and light doesn't mean not being prepared.
I personally carry an emergency kit (E blanket, fire, garbage bag, knife, first aid), rain jacket, warm layer, rain pants if any bad weather and all that fits into a 10lb running vest.
The converse is as others state I can be down from 14k to treeline in a little as 30min, far faster than those in expedition gear.

Yes there's a line where too minimal isn't safe, there's also just bad luck. It remains to be seen what happened in this case (combo?). We all need to respect the mountains, no matter what style you adventure in.

Justin, thanks for that wonderful story.

Eric

[timisimaginary]

many of these runners did have space blankets, rain jackets, first aid kits, etc. some of that was required by the race, some wasn't. in a lot of conditions that would be enough, but it wasn't in this case. the wind tore people's blankets to shreds or blew them away entirely. a small light rain jacket isn't going to do much in below-freezing conditions. a first aid kit doesn't have a pill for hypothermia. it's one thing to go mountaineering in those conditions, it's a whole 'nother thing to hold a race in them.

i think justiner hit the nail on the head, when people sign up for a race, they expect a certain amount of infrastructure and support to keep the race safe. there's a lot more responsibility the runners take on in an ultra when they're going into remote or potentially dangerous places, but at a bare minimum you'd expect the race to be cancelled if conditions are threatening. and the storm that hit this race wasn't a surprise. it's one thing if a freak storm pops up, but this storm was forecast in advance. they knew there was at least a potential for what happened. the organizers should have cancelled, flat out. over here, races get cancelled for excessive weather conditions, lightning risk, wildfire, or any number of potentially dangerous conditions less severe than what they were headed into. it was irresponsible, to say the least, to send these runners out into conditions that were likely far too extreme for any of them to handle. the fact that 21 people died is a testament to where most of the blame lies, you don't see that many deaths from individuals simply being unprepared.

if there's a lesson for ultra runners, though, it's to not just blindly follow or trust organizers to run a safe and responsible race. do your research, read the weather forecasts, and make your own decisions. if something doesn't feel right, or if the conditions don't feel safe, trust your gut just like you would if you were running on your own.

[pizza-sandwich]

this highlights more than anything else that if you’re going into the mountains you need to know things about weather.

it completely blows my mind that people would go into this race—anything in the alpine—without checking on the forecast and being prepared for it. that’s like the very first thing you do before you leave.

i’m sorta not sympathizing with these folks.

[terrysrunning]

...lesson for ultra runners, though, it's to not just blindly follow or trust organizers to run a safe and responsible race. do your research, read the weather forecasts, and make your own decisions. if something doesn't feel right, or if the conditions don't feel safe, trust your gut just like you would if you were running on your own.

That implies that the organizers were irresponsible or didn't put on a safe race. Which implies that you can do so in the alpine. Anyone who expects the organizers or anyone else to take care of them and keep them safe in a mountainous environment, or thinks it's possible, doesn't belong out there. Even in the best managed events in the world, you're quite possibly many hours from rescue on many parts of the course, especially in bad weather. Anyone who thinks otherwise needs to gain an understanding of how life works before they go out there.

[Dayute]

Its not really our place to judge their style of race. If they want to run races where the chances of death are that high thats on them. I say run through Waziristan and have the local warlords shoot at the runners next.

[timisimaginary]

...lesson for ultra runners, though, it's to not just blindly follow or trust organizers to run a safe and responsible race. do your research, read the weather forecasts, and make your own decisions. if something doesn't feel right, or if the conditions don't feel safe, trust your gut just like you would if you were running on your own.

That implies that the organizers were irresponsible or didn't put on a safe race. Which implies that you can do so in the alpine. Anyone who expects the organizers or anyone else to take care of them and keep them safe in a mountainous environment, or thinks it's possible, doesn't belong out there. Even in the best managed events in the world, you're quite possibly many hours from rescue on many parts of the course, especially in bad weather. Anyone who thinks otherwise needs to gain an understanding of how life works before they go out there.

i'm not implying it, i'm saying it straight out. they were irresponsible and obviously did not put on a safe race. if 21 people die in a race you organized, by definition it was not a safe race.

yes, there are limits to what organizers can do to keep participants from getting into trouble or rescue them when they do. the one thing they CAN do, however, is cancel a race when conditions are forecast to be too dangerous and extreme. these organizers didn't do that, and 21 people died as a result. if the organizers had made a basic, no-brainer safety decision, those people would still be alive today. of course, the individual racers can make their own decision whether they think the race is safe or not, and choose not to participate, but in this case they shouldn't have even had to make that decision.

the concept of a "safe race" is relative, people can die even in easy road 5Ks. that doesn't mean organizers don't have a responsibility to do whatever they can to make their race as safe as possible. the organizers of this race didn't do their basic duty in that regard. you can't prevent somebody from having a heart attack during a marathon either, but if you don't have medical personnel and AEDs on hand for such a contingency, then you're not being a responsible race organizer.