Ultramarathon Deaths

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timisimaginary
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Re: Ultramarathon Deaths

Post by timisimaginary »

pizza-sandwich wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 3:06 pm this highlights more than anything else that if you’re going into the mountains you need to know things about weather.

it completely blows my mind that people would go into this race—anything in the alpine—without checking on the forecast and being prepared for it. that’s like the very first thing you do before you leave.

i’m sorta not sympathizing with these folks.
i think a big reason for this is that it was held in China, and they have a lot more faith and trust in their gov't than is warranted. this race was put on by the local gov't. those runners trusted them to make safe and good decisions, and to be prepared for emergency contingencies, moreso than racers in US or Europe would be. that trust was obviously misplaced. the Chinese running culture is more susceptible to groupthink than over here, so when the organizers said it was ok to go, they went. i'd be curious to find out how many, if any, people who were signed up made the decision not to start.

it's also worth considering how much information was available to the runners being in China. especially in a really remote region, where this race was apparently held, you might not have good access to forecasts, topographic data, etc. that we might take for granted, and might be more dependent on the organizers and the gov't (both the same in this instance) for providing that info.
"The decay and disintegration of this culture is astonishingly amusing if you're emotionally detached from it." - George Carlin
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Re: Ultramarathon Deaths

Post by I Man »

Hard to really figure out what happened, but this is scary. I recently started getting into ultra running as a "safe" alternative to big mountain climbing now that I have a family. Truth is nothing is really "safe"
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timisimaginary
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Re: Ultramarathon Deaths

Post by timisimaginary »

in what might be considered a slight overreaction, China has now banned all ultramarathons and other high-risk sports
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DArcyS
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Re: Ultramarathon Deaths

Post by DArcyS »

timisimaginary wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:56 am in what might be considered a slight overreaction, China has now banned all ultramarathons and other high-risk sports
I'd rather see them ban gain-of-function virology research.
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DArcyS
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Re: Ultramarathon Deaths

Post by DArcyS »

Jorts wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 5:18 pm ... and Alpine approach where you move light and fast limiting exposure to hazard like avalanches, weather, exposure - like Messner and Kukuczka and the greats who were the firsts for quantity of summits and no Os.

But there's still a lot in between those two ends.

Guess it's all risk/reward. Hard to equate a running race where participants put a lot of trust in the organizers for their safety to mountain runners who bear full responsibility for anything that happens.
Within these two ends is an increased risk of injury from wearing trail runners, such as a severely twisted ankle that prevents one from walking out, trying to cross snowfields where kicking steps with flimsy shoes is impossible, and perhaps climbing on rock with what may be less than ideal tread.

I get the idea you're involved in SAR, so perhaps you might be able to give me a sense of the frequency of these types of accidents.

The first two factors I've thought of for many years. The last factor is a consequence of the fatality near Telluride a week ago -- the news stated he went for a "run" from Telluride, and then fell on a difficult ridge. Perhaps snow related, perhaps rock related, perhaps not related at all to trail runners.

Anyways, I don't think people adequately consider the increase risk of injury or accident by wearing trail runners.
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Re: Ultramarathon Deaths

Post by justiner »

I've actually found trail runners to work pretty well for mountain stuff.
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Re: Ultramarathon Deaths

Post by supranihilest »

justiner wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 11:00 am I've actually found trail runners to work pretty well for mountain stuff.
Ditto. Wear footwear that's appropriate for conditions, both your own and the mountain's. What an odd side-rant about footwear that was.
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DArcyS
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Re: Ultramarathon Deaths

Post by DArcyS »

supranihilest wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 11:09 am
justiner wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 11:00 am I've actually found trail runners to work pretty well for mountain stuff.
Ditto. Wear footwear that's appropriate for conditions, both your own and the mountain's. What an odd side-rant about footwear that was.
Albeit the topic is a drift, your characterization of it being a "rant" suggests you consult a dictionary before posting online.

Here's the definition of a rant to save you some time: "to speak or declaim extravagantly or violently; talk in a wild or vehement way; rave."

So, that's what you got out of my post? Get a grip on reality, dude. Thanks.

And can you now see the difference between a regular post and a rant? :wink:
Last edited by DArcyS on Mon Jun 07, 2021 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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DArcyS
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Re: Ultramarathon Deaths

Post by DArcyS »

justiner wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 11:00 am I've actually found trail runners to work pretty well for mountain stuff.
Right. Until you severely sprain your ankle. No offense, but you're a sample size of one. I'm interested in a statistical vantage point to see how many injuries or accidents have occurred from trail runners. One case of no accidents or injuries, which corresponds to your personal experience, doesn't prove much to me. Although to be fair, it does fairly suggest you exercise good judgment in knowing what to wear.

Again, yeah, a lit bit of thread drift, so be it.
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12ersRule
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Re: Ultramarathon Deaths

Post by 12ersRule »

I've broken my ankle before, but it was because I fell on ice on pavement, not due to mountain terrain.

Every single ultra I've ever been in, even the "technical" parts, I would say that trail runners were a better footwear choice than boots.

If the route was 95% trail, 10 times out of 10, I'd go with the trail runners. If it were mostly talus, I'd definitely go with the boots though.
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Re: Ultramarathon Deaths

Post by justiner »

DArcyS wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 12:48 pm
justiner wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 11:00 am I've actually found trail runners to work pretty well for mountain stuff.
Right. Until you severely sprain your ankle. No offense, but you're a sample size of one. I'm interested in a statistical vantage point to see how many injuries or accidents have occurred from trail runners. One case of no accidents or injuries, which corresponds to your personal experience, doesn't prove much to me, although it does fairly suggest you exercise good judgment in knowing what to wear.

Again, yeah, a lit bit of thread drift, so be it.
From the follow report done on this ultramarathon,

https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/22/china/ch ... index.html

how many deaths were attributed to a severely sprained ankle?

And what do you suggest runners use in an ultramarathons, besides running shoes?

And what are your independent reports in general comparing ankle sprains and types of footwear in general? I may be a n=1, but what are you basing your claims other than yourself and your own opinion? I think it's not far off that you are spreading FUD on a certain type of shoe since it's not what you prefer, which would also be n=1, yeah?
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Re: Ultramarathon Deaths

Post by two lunches »

it seems logical, but also a bit short-sighted to say "well as a runner/[activity of your choice] it's your responsibility to take care of yourself when it hits the fan". how many athletes do you know who have made a conscious decision to continue the pursuit of a goal after thoughtfully weighing the consequences. there's always a risk/reward assessment, it just gets a little more dicey when those involved are more naïve of the risk, as could have been entirely possible in this circumstance. let's not forget how easy it is to see someone do something on the internet and charge ahead full speed without understanding fully what the risk spectrum is.

my deepest sympathies to all affected by this tragedy, but i sure hope they backtrack that ultra- ban at some point and instead expend some energy on figuring out how to more safely hold events. it's a great sport
“To walk in nature is to witness a thousand miracles.” – Mary Davis
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