Colorado peak questions, condition requests and other info.
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mtngoatwithstyle wrote: ↑Wed Aug 04, 2021 7:36 pm
My deepest condolences to Kelly's family and loved ones. Also, I hope the SAR rescuers that were injured recover and know how much we appreciate and value all they do to keep us safe. I must say though, that I find it difficult to understand how someone who sees a Black Hawk making motions to them, does not understand or perceive that this big helicopter is trying to do tell them something. Black Hawks are not the type of plane you have in front of you when you are hiking a mountain, but I do understand that they may not have understood what was happening. Certainly, we need to continue helping educate hikers/climbers who do not know about situations like this on the mountain not related to weather or people, and how to properly motion forward. There is SO much I keep learning every day.
What is the signal to retreat or to proceed no further? Combine that with the helicopter is supposed to be no closer than 500'. I also have 20/40 vision, which is good enough in the mountains without my glasses. I envision a pilot waving their arms and the people waving back type of scenario. I also see a lot of flying around in jets and helicopters. Sometimes they are practicing. Sometimes they are playing for keeps. Not sure how to tell the difference.
But, let's talk about the decision of the rescuerers. I'm not trying to blame the victims here, but rather learn how i can make better decisions in the field. You've been looking for someone who was overdue for days, he appeared to have suffered a fatal fall, you're worried about rock fall from above (enough thay you send a blackhawk to try and have them retreat), what is to be gained trying to get there 15 minutes earlier? And perhaps they were waiting in what they thought was a safe spot. Difficult decisions have to be made, i get that, but was the juice worth the squeeze in this instance? And I'm sure those people on the ridge will have a crappy time trying to live with this.
Condolences all around and a speedy recovery to those that were injured.
Very sad all around. In my decades of climbing in CO, I have observed three common factors in fatalities: 1. climbing alone 2. out of state climber and 3. bad weather. Looks like Kelly may have had all three working against him.
GeezerClimber wrote: ↑Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:04 pm
Very sad all around. In my decades of climbing in CO, I have observed three common factors in fatalities: 1. climbing alone 2. out of state climber and 3. bad weather. Looks like Kelly may have had all three working against him.
Dave
On Capitol, it seems that most of the deaths in recent years have been from people getting off route, either intentionally or unintentionally.
I'm old, slow and fat. Unfortunately, those are my good qualities.
We have no idea what happened. If he was found below the knife's edge he was probably on the standard route. It could have been something as simple as a rock that hundreds of other people have stepped on giving way to the forces of gravity and erosion. When people act like person X died because they made mistake A, B, or C and they themselves would never make those same mistakes they are deluding themselves into believing they are less vulnerable then they are. Sometimes people make good decisions and have bad luck. We don't, and probably never will, know what happened to this hiker. My condolences to those who loved him.
Conor wrote: ↑Wed Aug 04, 2021 7:56 pm
But, let's talk about the decision of the rescuerers. I'm not trying to blame the victims here, but rather learn how i can make better decisions in the field. You've been looking for someone who was overdue for days, he appeared to have suffered a fatal fall, you're worried about rock fall from above (enough thay you send a blackhawk to try and have them retreat), what is to be gained trying to get there 15 minutes earlier? And perhaps they were waiting in what they thought was a safe spot. Difficult decisions have to be made, i get that, but was the juice worth the squeeze in this instance? And I'm sure those people on the ridge will have a crappy time trying to live with this.
Condolences all around and a speedy recovery to those that were injured.
It was 4:00pm, so likely a case of "lets get this wrapped up quick so we can be back on solid ground before sunset".
I'm not sure what they wanted the hikers to do? Capitol Peak is very much a one way in, one way out ordeal. It also isn't a mountain I want to sit around and wait on while SAR retrieves a body at 4:00pm. If I am on Elbert sure, I don't mind waiting 40 minutes for SAR to do their thing, but waiting on Capitol could be dangerous especially in the afternoon.
I have full faith that SAR will do an after action investigation and everyone will be safer because of it.
Condolences to the family. Life is precious, take a second and enjoy every hike, every failed summit and the adventure along the way.
Scene safety is at the forefront of considerations for SAR ops. But trained volunteers regularly go into off trail places that few have ever stepped foot having little beta beyond a topo. So there are often unknowns associated with these judgement calls. Risk can be mitigated but not eliminated.
I’ve been on SAR calls where we made on the fly decisions regarding scene safety and perceived risk of the op. It’s easy to armchair QB but more difficult to make these decisions in stressful environments in the field with only partial information.
Be careful drawing conclusions 1) without all the facts and 2) without knowing what went into the decisions made
Condolences to Kelly’s friends and family and positive vibes to the rescuers seeking to bring them closure.
Traveling light is the only way to fly.
IG: @colorado_invasive
Strava: Brent Herring
GeezerClimber wrote: ↑Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:04 pm
Very sad all around. In my decades of climbing in CO, I have observed three common factors in fatalities: 1. climbing alone 2. out of state climber and 3. bad weather. Looks like Kelly may have had all three working against him.
Dave
I'd been following the news hoping for a happy outcome for this climber. My condolences to his family and to the Mountain Rescue volunteers who were injured in the field.
Please feel free to message me if this question no longer fits the tenor of discussion now that the outcome is known: As someone who climbs alone the majority of the time, what specifically is it about climbing alone, to your observation, that can lead to fatalities more frequently than climbing with a partner? At this point, the only reason I climb alone is because I don't yet have people I know and trust who want to climb increasingly challenging peaks, and I'm reluctant to join up with a group of strangers for Class 3 and 4 climbs. I feel like when I'm alone, as long as I can make truthful assessments of my energy, skill limitations, risk tolerance, etc., I have as good a chance of making solid decisions as I would if I were trying to come to a consensus with a bunch of people. But I could be wrong.
GeezerClimber wrote: ↑Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:04 pm
Very sad all around. In my decades of climbing in CO, I have observed three common factors in fatalities: 1. climbing alone 2. out of state climber and 3. bad weather. Looks like Kelly may have had all three working against him.
Dave
I'd been following the news hoping for a happy outcome for this climber. My condolences to his family and to the Mountain Rescue volunteers who were injured in the field.
Please feel free to message me if this question no longer fits the tenor of discussion now that the outcome is known: As someone who climbs alone the majority of the time, what specifically is it about climbing alone, to your observation, that can lead to fatalities more frequently than climbing with a partner? At this point, the only reason I climb alone is because I don't yet have people I know and trust who want to climb increasingly challenging peaks, and I'm reluctant to join up with a group of strangers for Class 3 and 4 climbs. I feel like when I'm alone, as long as I can make truthful assessments of my energy, skill limitations, risk tolerance, etc., I have as good a chance of making solid decisions as I would if I were trying to come to a consensus with a bunch of people. But I could be wrong.
A partner can provide first aid if you are injured, has extra medical/food/water/clothing supplies that you can utilize if injured, and can help initiate SAR.
After climbing a great hill, one only finds that there are many more hills to climb. -Nelson Mandela
Whenever I climb I am followed by a dog called Ego. -Nietzsche
Ps I hope the injured SAR people recover fully and quickly. Its terrible they were injured trying to help someone
After climbing a great hill, one only finds that there are many more hills to climb. -Nelson Mandela
Whenever I climb I am followed by a dog called Ego. -Nietzsche
GeezerClimber wrote: ↑Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:04 pm
Very sad all around. In my decades of climbing in CO, I have observed three common factors in fatalities: 1. climbing alone 2. out of state climber and 3. bad weather. Looks like Kelly may have had all three working against him.
Dave
I'd been following the news hoping for a happy outcome for this climber. My condolences to his family and to the Mountain Rescue volunteers who were injured in the field.
Please feel free to message me if this question no longer fits the tenor of discussion now that the outcome is known: As someone who climbs alone the majority of the time, what specifically is it about climbing alone, to your observation, that can lead to fatalities more frequently than climbing with a partner? At this point, the only reason I climb alone is because I don't yet have people I know and trust who want to climb increasingly challenging peaks, and I'm reluctant to join up with a group of strangers for Class 3 and 4 climbs. I feel like when I'm alone, as long as I can make truthful assessments of my energy, skill limitations, risk tolerance, etc., I have as good a chance of making solid decisions as I would if I were trying to come to a consensus with a bunch of people. But I could be wrong.
A partner can provide first aid if you are injured, has extra medical/food/water/clothing supplies that you can utilize if injured, and can help initiate SAR.
A good partner can also help with route finding if you have questions. You can also talk over any situation that comes up. Two sets of eyes are often better than one.
Consecutive months with at least one 13er or 14er, 72 months