Mount Lindsey Closure
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Re: Mount Lindsey Closure
Just sent Lindsey 2 days ago..bunch of folks at the top. Glad I didn't read the sign
Re: Mount Lindsey Closure
Cole_Train89 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:59 pm Just sent Lindsey 2 days ago..bunch of folks at the top. Glad I didn't read the sign
LoJ
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- highpilgrim
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Re: Mount Lindsey Closure
Sent Lindsey?Cole_Train89 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:59 pm Just sent Lindsey 2 days ago..bunch of folks at the top. Glad I didn't read the sign
Like the Dawn Wall?!
Damn, good for you.
Call on God, but row away from the rocks.
Hunter S Thompson
Walk away from the droning and leave the hive behind.
Dick Derkase
Hunter S Thompson
Walk away from the droning and leave the hive behind.
Dick Derkase
Re: Mount Lindsey Closure
How do you send a walk up?Cole_Train89 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:59 pm Just sent Lindsey 2 days ago..bunch of folks at the top. Glad I didn't read the sign
- Gene913
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Re: Mount Lindsey Closure
The comparison is valid. We're not talking about public lands here; we are talking about private property. If it is private property, then it is private property, no matter whether the tract is large or small. If you say the person who owns or controls a large tract of property has no right to control who has access to his property, then there is no principled or reasoned rationale for saying the person who owns or controls a small tract of property has the right to limit or control access to his property.supranihilest wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:44 amWho knew that Louis Bacon resided on top of Mount Lindsey or even anywhere close. A residential structure is not the same as a 170,000 acre ranch and your argument is like comparing apples to a 170,000 acre ranch. Hiking one of the most unique pieces of land in the entire world is not the same as squatting in a residential structure and your argument is like comparing apples to squatting in a residential structure.
"If you have faith like a grain of mustard seed, and you say to this mountain, 'move from here to there,' it will move, and nothing will be impossible for you." Matthew 17:21
- highpilgrim
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Re: Mount Lindsey Closure
bulls**t. It’s the equivalent of kids cutting across my yard, as the shortest way home.
STAY OFF MY LAWN, PUNKS!
I don’t think I’ll play that. It’s the top of a mountain they’ve probably never hiked. Like those Highland Ranch dipshits with a Range Rover that has never and will never leave the pavement; no respect due.
Call on God, but row away from the rocks.
Hunter S Thompson
Walk away from the droning and leave the hive behind.
Dick Derkase
Hunter S Thompson
Walk away from the droning and leave the hive behind.
Dick Derkase
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Re: Mount Lindsey Closure
It’s not that simple Gene and I did see you are retired federal prosecutor. In my mind it’s the same as the situation in California where private landowners cannot restrict access to the beach.
We are not taking about random private property in Kansas. These are the highest peaks in this part of the world and no man should be able to restrict access.
We are not taking about random private property in Kansas. These are the highest peaks in this part of the world and no man should be able to restrict access.
- supranihilest
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Re: Mount Lindsey Closure
The comparison is not valid. Squatting in someone's residence, aka staying for an indefinite amount of time, is not the same as hiking a peak. I do agree that the landowner, Louis Bacon, has the right to restrict access (even though it seems like he doesn't want to, considering Lindsey was open for decades prior to the legal case mentioned several times in this thread) but nobody in their right mind could possibly consider someone hiking a peak to squatting in someone's residence. They are varying degrees of trespassing and not close degrees either. There are literally three degrees of trespassing in Colorado law for a reason.Gene913 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:31 pmThe comparison is valid. We're not talking about public lands here; we are talking about private property. If it is private property, then it is private property, no matter whether the tract is large or small. If you say the person who owns or controls a large tract of property has no right to control who has access to his property, then there is no principled or reasoned rationale for saying the person who owns or controls a small tract of property has the right to limit or control access to his property.supranihilest wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:44 amWho knew that Louis Bacon resided on top of Mount Lindsey or even anywhere close. A residential structure is not the same as a 170,000 acre ranch and your argument is like comparing apples to a 170,000 acre ranch. Hiking one of the most unique pieces of land in the entire world is not the same as squatting in a residential structure and your argument is like comparing apples to squatting in a residential structure.
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Re: Mount Lindsey Closure
It's your yard and your property; you get to decide whether to tolerate or not tolerate those who encroach on it.highpilgrim wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:20 pmbulls**t. It’s the equivalent of kids cutting across my yard, as the shortest way home.
STAY OFF MY LAWN, PUNKS!
I don’t think I’ll play that. It’s the top of a mountain they’ve probably never hiked. Like those Highland Ranch dipshits with a Range Rover that has never and will never leave the pavement; no respect due.
You may not care if the kids cut across your yard, and that's fine.
You own your yard, you get to control who has access to it.
Whether you use every square inch of your yard doesn't really matter, anymore than whether the owner of a mountain has ever set foot on it.
Like it or not, he owns the mountain and gets to control who has access to it.
"If you have faith like a grain of mustard seed, and you say to this mountain, 'move from here to there,' it will move, and nothing will be impossible for you." Matthew 17:21
- Gene913
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Re: Mount Lindsey Closure
You're right; we are not talking about random private property in Kansas. But we are talking about private property. I'm not saying I like or even agree with the decision to limit or restrict access, but if he owns it, he has the right to control access to it. California may have a specific set of provisions regarding beach access, and that's OK too. But that apparently is not the rule in Colorado, so until Colorado decides to adopt the California rule, we all have to live with the fact that access can be limited or restricted.jlawer wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:30 pm It’s not that simple Gene and I did see you are retired federal prosecutor. In my mind it’s the same as the situation in California where private landowners cannot restrict access to the beach.
We are not taking about random private property in Kansas. These are the highest peaks in this part of the world and no man should be able to restrict access.
"If you have faith like a grain of mustard seed, and you say to this mountain, 'move from here to there,' it will move, and nothing will be impossible for you." Matthew 17:21
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Re: Mount Lindsey Closure
where did you send her? and why isn't she back yet? maybe you should go check on her.
"The decay and disintegration of this culture is astonishingly amusing if you're emotionally detached from it." - George Carlin
Re: Mount Lindsey Closure
Thanks for this, as it's the real issue here. I don't read the outcome of the Nelson case as weakening the CO Recreational Use Statute, and it's surprising to see the case cited as the reason for posting a closure. A maintained (whether or not officially) MTB path carries a reasonable expectation of upkeep and therefore protection against hazards. A mountain trail does not. I guess a revision to the CRUS is in order to remove ambiguity, perhaps to exclude, generically, common natural hazards and to emphasize the exclusion of hazards inherent to the activity.HikerGuy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 11:24 pm ... there was more to it than I was reading. The original judgement found CRUS did not apply and therefore Nelson was not considered an invitee under CRUS which if he was would have made the CLPA moot. The US appealed the verdict to the 10th Circuit Court. The circuit court found that CRUS did apply, which means Nelson was an invitee and therefore CLPA did not apply. However, once the circuit court found that CRUS did apply, it meant that the lower court had to reexamine the rest of the CRUS statute that was not initially considered because that threshold had not been met in the original decision. So, upon reconsideration the lower court found that an exception in CRUS did apply (the US was willful or malicious failure to guard or warn against a known dangerous condition likely to cause harm) and damages were awarded. The US appealed again to the circuit court and the new findings of the lower court were upheld. Westword actually has a pretty good summary of how the case unfolded.
So, this issue with CRUS is way more nuanced than I first believed it to be. The ranch's knee jerk reaction to put up the no trespass signage is understandable, but I have a feeling it does not protect them unless they enforce it. If they do not have plans to enforce no trespassing and they really don't mind folks summiting Lindsey, they would be better off placing signage that tells folks to stay on trail and be aware of dangerous conditions that may exist. I imagine this is what CFI will be working with them on.