Information on current and past 14er closures, usually due to private property issues.
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CaptainSuburbia wrote: ↑Thu May 26, 2022 10:43 am
Maybe email Louis Bacon if you want to climb Lindsey. I did last year and he seemed very open to allowing me to climb Hamilton from the old trailhead on the private property side. Unfortunately, I didn't get the time for this.
It’s that easy to email a billionaire master of the universe?
Surprisedly yes. I didn't expect to hear back.
I thought you'd have a better chance of getting an email response from Sir Francis Bacon. How did you even find his email?
Also, could you access Little Bear from there? Think there's other owners involved, but it's the same basin and above treeline.
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It’s that easy to email a billionaire master of the universe?
Surprisedly yes. I didn't expect to hear back.
I thought you'd have a better chance of getting an email response from Sir Francis Bacon. How did you even find his email?
Also, could you access Little Bear from there? Think there's other owners involved, but it's the same basin and above treeline.
It's amazing what you can find on Google. Yes, you can climb to LB from there over SLB. I'm sure there's a few on this site who have done it.
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Candace66 wrote: ↑Thu May 05, 2022 6:29 pm
Is this the legal change they were trying to get through? It appears to have gone through the entire process and become law.
The CO 14ers Initiative reached out to the landowners last week to confirm the current status of the mountain and hadn't heard back from them as of Monday.
Other than contacting the owner to ask for permission as mentioned by CaptainSuburbia, is there any news from CFI? The landowners have had well over a week to respond.
"Education is the process of moving from cocksure ignorance to thoughtful uncertainty." (Utvich)
Candace66 wrote: ↑Thu May 05, 2022 6:29 pm
Is this the legal change they were trying to get through? It appears to have gone through the entire process and become law.
The CO 14ers Initiative reached out to the landowners last week to confirm the current status of the mountain and hadn't heard back from them as of Monday.
Other than contacting the owner to ask for permission as mentioned by CaptainSuburbia, is there any news from CFI? The landowners have had well over a week to respond.
One of the admins of the 14ers.com Facebook group teased today that something will be announced later this week.
From the 14ers FB admin team--who was in contact with CFI--Lindsey will remain closed this summer. Although my interpretation of the 3rd graph indicates to me that CFI has not heard back from the land owner if the are using phrasing such as "believes".
In any case, the landowners wanted a legislative fix when they closed access last summer, and that has not been achieved this legislative session. Barring a special session, the Colorado Legislature will convene again 1/9/2023.
Happy June!
As most of you are beginning to dust off the summer gear for a season of 14er hiking, the admin team wanted to address an issue that we’re beginning to get some questions on: the Mt. Lindsey closure.
Public access has remained closed on the private land surrounding and including Mt Lindsey for quite some time now. The landowners cite liability concerns. We spoke with CFI this morning and they gave us an update that tells us to tell you to continue keeping Mt. Lindsey off your peak list this summer.
There was no action in the legislature on resolving the recreational use law that concerned the landowners, so CFI believes, as of now, they will still want to officially consider anyone climbing the peak as a “trespasser” to gain maximum protection under the law. This is similar to what happened last summer with Decalibron.
It’s a complicated situation and we just ask that for now, everybody respects this decision. We are keeping in close touch with CFI and will update you as we hear more throughout this summer.
Thanks,
The Admin Team
Or we could just hike it anyway. I fail to see how they plan to enforce this particular closure of an alpine peak. The closure starts at nearly 13k from public lands. They're not about to put a guard up there and I don't think a hiker would have to worry about some Gestapo officer on an ATV like they would on Culebra.
The proscription against hiking Lindsey is a fig leaf against a lawsuit: "well we told people not to hike up there because we knew there were hazards. The signs were visible. If they ignored the warnings we're not liable for their injuries."
Don't let people pretend they "own" land they're not using, or prevent people's access to the commons.
Ptglhs wrote: ↑Wed Jun 01, 2022 9:23 pm
Or we could just hike it anyway. I fail to see how they plan to enforce this particular closure of an alpine peak. The closure starts at nearly 13k from public lands. They're not about to put a guard up there and I don't think a hiker would have to worry about some Gestapo officer on an ATV like they would on Culebra.
The proscription against hiking Lindsey is a fig leaf against a lawsuit: "well we told people not to hike up there because we knew there were hazards. The signs were visible. If they ignored the warnings we're not liable for their injuries."
Don't let people pretend they "own" land they're not using, or prevent people's access to the commons.
And this is why we can't have nice things.
Ptglhs - Regardless of what world you may live in, reality is that Mount Lindsey is entirely owned by someone other than you. It's also not "the commons" anymore than your living room is open for anyone to drop by at any time. Even if you aren't using it.
"Climbing mountains is the only thing I know that combines the best of the physical, spiritual, and emotional world all rolled into one." -Steve Gladbach
RyGuy wrote: ↑Wed Jun 01, 2022 9:43 pm
Ptglhs - Regardless of what world you may live in, reality is that Mount Lindsey is entirely owned by someone other than you. It's also not "the commons" anymore than your living room is open for anyone to drop by at any time. Even if you aren't using it.
And here it is, conflating a mountain slope in the alpine that has no mining, logging, ranching, power generation, residential use, etc, with a living room. They're totally different. Hiking in the alpine that's not being used, fine. Eating food that's being thrown away, also fine. Taking a dump in someone's living room or taking food off their plate: not fine.
Did you get a letter from the owners of the unused,minjng claim on the summit of Bross for any of your 3 times you've been up there? Just curious.
RyGuy wrote: ↑Wed Jun 01, 2022 9:43 pm
Ptglhs - Regardless of what world you may live in, reality is that Mount Lindsey is entirely owned by someone other than you. It's also not "the commons" anymore than your living room is open for anyone to drop by at any time. Even if you aren't using it.
And here it is, conflating a mountain slope in the alpine that has no mining, logging, ranching, power generation, residential use, etc, with a living room. They're totally different. Hiking in the alpine that's not being used, fine. Eating food that's being thrown away, also fine. Taking a dump in someone's living room or taking food off their plate: not fine.
Did you get a letter from the owners of the unused,minjng claim on the summit of Bross for any of your 3 times you've been up there? Just curious.
No, the principle of trespassing on a peak and trespassing on your living room space really are about the same. In both cases, there is an owner of the area and if you are not invited, you are trespassing. It's quite simple, really. You can think differently of it, but the reality is it comes down to ownership and permission.
As for my times on Bross. Once I did go to the true summit back in 2011 and didn't know it was technically closed and didn't a fraction of what I know now about the land ownership situation. If I go up again, I will respect the closure because I respect that someone else other than me owns the summit and I am not special.
"Climbing mountains is the only thing I know that combines the best of the physical, spiritual, and emotional world all rolled into one." -Steve Gladbach
It’s not really about active enforcement of trespassing. For the landowner it’s about an effective legal defense strategy. Unfortunately the precedent set by that 2008 Nelson vs. USAFA case means that land owners have to rely on trespassing as a way to manage the liability risk. If they don’t “close access,” and some litigious hiker gets hurt by a “known hazard” on that land, precedent may lead to a really big negative financial impact for the landowner.
It sucks, but wishful thinking about “the commons” or “peoples right to the wilderness” means absolutely nothing in a court of law. If we want change, then it’s an long uphill climb towards one of two summits: New state legislation and/or organizations like CFI securing easements or purchases that are then made into public land.
