Mount Lindsey Closure

Information on current and past 14er closures, usually due to private property issues.
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bking14ers
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Re: Mount Lindsey Closure

Post by bking14ers »

OK. I can't let this go. For X amount of years how many people have summited Lindsey, got hurt and not sued the land owners. It takes one dumb ass to "F" it all up for the rest of us. I can't believe in todays world that even one of a gazillion lawyers, can't find away to keep someone from holding a land owner liable for anything if someone comes onto their property to do X as long as they allow them to do X. Glad I already did this one.
Everything you want in life is on the other side of fear. -- Margaret T.
You'll never have a better chance to climb that mountain than you do today. -- Dave C.
Dude! I knew you would cave-in once we got up there. -- Dean G.
TomPierce
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Re: Mount Lindsey Closure

Post by TomPierce »

Bking,

Just to be clear, there's no finding of liability, or even non-liability. Here's the game: injured party files suit, the only cost is a nominal filing fee. Then contact the landowner and offer to settle. For the landowner, to get the case dismissed through a summary judgment will probably cost tens of thousands in legal fees. Let's call that amount X. If you can settle for X minus $1 (or less) you've made an economically sound decision. If you ever hear the phrase "a nuisance value settlement," that's what I'm describing.

-Tom
PJ88
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Re: Mount Lindsey Closure

Post by PJ88 »

I really don’t understand what all the anger is about. We can argue back and forth about whether it’s right to own mountains blah blah blah, but the fact of the matter is they do and they can keep people out if they want. They have been nice enough to allow access to this peak for years and their lawyer is probably advising them to do this so they don’t get sued. Again, we can argue about whether suing the owner is right or not but people obviously do. If I was rich and owned this ranch and my lawyer advised this I would probably listen. They are actively working on a solution to let people climb again and it’s probably just a matter of time until that happens. There are plenty of other mountains to climb in the meantime.

I apologize if Lindsey was to be your finisher this year though.
SteveBonowski
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Re: Mount Lindsey Closure

Post by SteveBonowski »

I did Lindsey back in the mid-1990s. It's the only 14er I did during my active "bagging career" (1982-2018; finished the 55 in '99) that featured a dead body about 100' down and east of the summit ridge. Somebody had fallen; rest in peace; and the sheriff hadn't gotten the body out yet.
LowLandRunner
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Re: Mount Lindsey Closure

Post by LowLandRunner »

Realistically, If I were the landowner, I would be more concerned about a lawsuit from the injured person's insurance company than the injured person themselves.

If you go to the emergency room, you will probably receive a letter from your insurance company asking for details of where you were and what you were doing when you were injured (I have received such a letter and know others that have as well). I would not be at all surprised to see an insurance company sue a landowner on your behalf to recover the medical expenses.

I'm not a lawyer, but I'm a bit surprised that the Air Force Academy did not claim sovereign immunity.
tmud
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Re: Mount Lindsey Closure

Post by tmud »

PJ88 wrote: Wed Sep 08, 2021 4:26 pm They are actively working on a solution to let people climb again and it’s probably just a matter of time until that happens.
I'm sure this is the case everyone, land access is an issue in every outdoor community, give it some time, it will get worked out, people will be able to climb lindsey again soon enough.
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cedica
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Re: Mount Lindsey Closure

Post by cedica »

douglas wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 5:39 am
Ptglhs wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 1:19 am And here I go again on my own
Goin' down the only road I've ever known
Like a drifter I was born to walk alone
An' I've made up my mind, I ain't wasting no more time...
Here we go again 🙄
Coverdale is Working Class God.jpg
Coverdale is Working Class God.jpg (38.32 KiB) Viewed 2748 times
dark_forest
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Re: Mount Lindsey Closure

Post by dark_forest »

I'm very much of the mindset that there are so many good mountains to climb. I will probably never climb Bross, and really don't care about the checkmark.

But...
PJ88 wrote: Wed Sep 08, 2021 4:26 pm I really don’t understand what all the anger is about.
Really? You don't understand why people are angry about the situation, land owners, legal system, etc?

It is possible to respect the law while still being angry about it and wanting to change things.
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two lunches
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Re: Mount Lindsey Closure

Post by two lunches »

tmud wrote: Wed Sep 08, 2021 7:47 pm
PJ88 wrote: Wed Sep 08, 2021 4:26 pm They are actively working on a solution to let people climb again and it’s probably just a matter of time until that happens.
I'm sure this is the case everyone, land access is an issue in every outdoor community, give it some time, it will get worked out, people will be able to climb lindsey again soon enough.
y’all there are THOUSANDS of peaks to climb in this state. Lloyd says CFI is working on it, so go find something else to do until then.. good grief charlie brown
“To walk in nature is to witness a thousand miracles.” – Mary Davis
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Trotter
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Re: Mount Lindsey Closure

Post by Trotter »

stephakett wrote: Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:10 pm
tmud wrote: Wed Sep 08, 2021 7:47 pm
PJ88 wrote: Wed Sep 08, 2021 4:26 pm They are actively working on a solution to let people climb again and it’s probably just a matter of time until that happens.
I'm sure this is the case everyone, land access is an issue in every outdoor community, give it some time, it will get worked out, people will be able to climb lindsey again soon enough.
y’all there are THOUSANDS of peaks to climb in this state. Lloyd says CFI is working on it, so go find something else to do until then.. good grief charlie brown
+1
After climbing a great hill, one only finds that there are many more hills to climb. -Nelson Mandela
Whenever I climb I am followed by a dog called Ego. -Nietzsche
Curtis Stoll
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Re: Mount Lindsey Closure

Post by Curtis Stoll »

Trotter wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 5:08 am
stephakett wrote: Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:10 pm
tmud wrote: Wed Sep 08, 2021 7:47 pm

I'm sure this is the case everyone, land access is an issue in every outdoor community, give it some time, it will get worked out, people will be able to climb lindsey again soon enough.
y’all there are THOUSANDS of peaks to climb in this state. Lloyd says CFI is working on it, so go find something else to do until then.. good grief charlie brown
+1
+1,000
GuiGirard
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Re: Mount Lindsey Closure

Post by GuiGirard »

TomPierce wrote: Wed Sep 08, 2021 11:49 am As for the reason injured hikers file a lawsuit based on their voluntary assumption of the risk (e.g. they chose to hike a particular peak on a particular day, i.e. no one put a gun to their heads) I'd bet my 401K balance that it has to do with a lack of health insurance. I've heard of this over & over in the tech climbing realm, e.g. a climber gets injured in a fall at a cliff, has no health insurance, then sues the land owner to cover the costs of the care. Of course they are prodded on by the lawyers who file such cases. Such lawyers typically want to recoup their contingent fees, typically 33% of the amount recovered, so a lawyer has a vested interest in driving the settlement amount above the actual costs of the health care. Some climbing areas have closed because of such lawsuits.

Purely my opinion, but this is BS. If you can't pay for the costs of your voluntary activities, including possible injuries, don't do it. Simple as that.
Or insurance companies themselves. There are plenty of examples of injuries and accidents where they tried to foot the bill to another party, either before or after covering the patient's medical costs. They have good legal departments.

If that's a liability that the ranch owners do not want to take, I cannot blame them. It would suck for them if some day, they get a 6-figure hospital bill for a stranger who they do not even know was hiking on their property, while leaving no trace besides footprints in dirt, and being otherwise respectful of the property. Or maybe, this is what just happened. Or more simply they recently had a meeting with their lawyer and they addressed that risk.

As much as I disagree with health insurance system and liability-everything system in this country, as well as the concept of private property in the high country on land that is useless for the purpose of agriculture, mining, or other human activities, it's the f---g system and one has to abide to it in order to try and change it.

So let's all please respect the right of the landowner to deny access to people to the peak they own. The more the people abide by the closure, the higher the chances a resolution can be found by working with the CFI. Meanwhile, there are thousands of peaks to be hiked legally.
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