Crestone Needle dihedral

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kristenfarrell4
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Crestone Needle dihedral

Post by kristenfarrell4 »

Attempted Crestone Needle this weekend, but we found ourselves stumped by the dihedral crossing. The photos from the route description showing the location to cross NO LONGER match any site in the area. It is clear some rock fall has occured, since the large red chockstone (https://www.14ers.com/route.php?route=cnee1 photo #17) can now be seen a good 200 feet down the gully. We watched two groups of people perform class 4+/5 moves to move across this area.

Has anyone else encountered this problem? We were prepared for a class 3 route and this was clearly beyond. Perhaps an updated route description and photo of the area would be helpful.
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justiner
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Re: Crestone Needle dihedral

Post by justiner »

Did you take any photos?
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BillMiddlebrook
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Re: Crestone Needle dihedral

Post by BillMiddlebrook »

We recently discussed this over on Facebook... A convenient step of rock that was sitting in the "dip" washed out a couple of years ago. I did it recently and still think the crossing is Class 3 albeit stiff Class 3.

Here's the FB post - look for my discussion with Zach and Noel and most-importantly, my comparison photo which I will also post here soon.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/8233844 ... 2441377842

Also, that PHOTO #17 you referenced shows a red rock in the center but the angle of that photo doesn't show that there's still some distance past that point to get to the crossing point, as you can see by how much higher the circled climber is positioned.
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BillMiddlebrook
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Re: Crestone Needle dihedral

Post by BillMiddlebrook »

Here's a comparison of 2015 (I think) and last summer. Notice that missing chunk? It makes the crossing slightly harder but I found it to simply require a step down and then a Class 3 move or two around to the left. One more reason why the east gully direct route may take over as the standard next year. I'm waiting to hear thoughts from Custer County SAR on this topic...
needle.jpg
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"When I go out, I become more alive. I just love skiing. The gravitational pull. When you ski steep terrain... you can almost get a feeling of flying." -Doug Coombs
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JaredJohnson
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Re: Crestone Needle dihedral

Post by JaredJohnson »

kristenfarrell4 wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:37 pmHas anyone else encountered this problem? We were prepared for a class 3 route and this was clearly beyond.
My first time in that spot, I was behind a big group and they were all making pretty easy work of it except a couple of the really inexperienced folks. I had some decent class 3 experience, and yet I couldn't figure out the problem. I spent some time feeling for good holds and a good position but couldn't screw myself up for anything. Someone in the group was nice enough to just give me an arm to grab to help get across. I made it on my own on the way down since it was a bit easier going dowhill, at the time I subjectively felt like the moves required were like 5.0.

Then over labor day weekend this month I descended the east gully from the summit of the needle in dry conditions. I came upon this section and decided to try it just to see how I measure up to it now; I went across it and then back. The holds were just as I remembered, except I had a lot more confidence from a few more years of climbing. When one is committed to the move to get across, it's pretty simple movement and feels a lot more like class 3, to be honest, just with a little thing in the pit of your stomach the whole way. Kinda like the single class 3 move on sneffels at the V notch.

As noted elsewhere in the forum, many are beginning to feel the crossover and west gully portion of the route is pointless and the east gully. I'm in that camp as well. Many with not a ton of class 3-4 experience would find the crossover difficult, and those same would find the "east gully direct" difficult too, so why not go for something else and get some experience under your belt. Those with more experience should be comfortable with both, so why not go for the route that people don't get lost and die on (:
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Re: Crestone Needle dihedral

Post by coopereitel »

A buddy and I did this route a couple of weeks ago and I honestly thought it wasn't a 4. I like the stiff 3 rating. Getting up was awkward, but unexposed. Getting down was easy because I jumped the gap.

Personally, I thought the move at the top of the wall you climb above the dihedral was harder and more awkward/exposed.

I guess it's all just subjective.
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Re: Crestone Needle dihedral

Post by Alpinefroggy »

BillMiddlebrook wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:53 pm Here's a comparison of 2015 (I think) and last summer. Notice that missing chunk? It makes the crossing slightly harder but I found it to simply require a step down and then a Class 3 move or two around to the left. One more reason why the east gully direct route may take over as the standard next year. I'm waiting to hear thoughts from Custer County SAR on this topic...
needle.jpg
The east gully direct is a much safer route imo. I advocate for changing it out on the site once you get that guidance.

I found the crossover going up and going down the east gully but that exit seemed to be really awkward. The photos on 14ers are a bit harder to follow than I expected and I had to look for specific rock features in the photos to recognize where I was.
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Re: Crestone Needle dihedral

Post by highpilgrim »

Alpinefroggy wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:06 pm The east gully direct is a much safer route imo.
Completely agree. I think it low 4th or high 3rd class but not difficult regardless. I'm exposure averse and didn't feel pushed there. And my teenage son was comfortable as well.

The east gulley is direct, with no bulls**t, up or down.

My opinion, expressed often over the years.
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Re: Crestone Needle dihedral

Post by Reg0928 »

I would give my vote for making the east gully the standard as well. I've been up The Needle 3 times now, and every time I've gone up the east and down the standard. Even if you take route finding out of the equation, I found the crossover move to be trickier than any move in the east gully. When you add in the constant route finding issues, taking the east gully is a no brainer
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Re: Crestone Needle dihedral

Post by dsr80304 »

On the crossover... 1) height/length certainly helps alot. But they way I did it did require really swinging a leg around and being mostly supported by my handholes for that fraction. Is that class 4? 2) That said, there is very little exposure on that move. If you slip, you'll fall 4-5 down into the gully, but smooth and you shouldn't slide or tumble. Some scrapes and a bruise. But net-net, this could be tricky for someone shorter, but not exposed.
On the descent, we did the standard and is certainly easier - just be hyper aware of the crossover point of course!
Not to add confusion or go on a tangent, but further down the descent we saw a traverse just before the final descent down the lower pitch just above the official trail crossover. This traverse (with cairns and a trail) hits a downclimb that is pretty steep, but super solid and knobby. It was fun. And I'm guessing is similar to staying in the east gully above the diahedral/crossover.
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Re: Crestone Needle dihedral

Post by TomPierce »

Reg0928 wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 6:17 am I would give my vote for making the east gully the standard as well. I've been up The Needle 3 times now, and every time I've gone up the east and down the standard. Even if you take route finding out of the equation, I found the crossover move to be trickier than any move in the east gully. When you add in the constant route finding issues, taking the east gully is a no brainer
It's obviously Bill's call to make, but elevating the Easy Gully to the standard route on this site makes sense to me. Personally I never found anything on the Needle all that difficult, but every year there seem to be multiple "events" on the Needle (disoriented climbers, accidents, etc.) and extended discussions about painting arrows, placing signs to identify the correct route. If those events can be avoided it sure makes sense to me, a good proactive step. Just my opinion.

-Tom
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Re: Crestone Needle dihedral

Post by mspin99 »

I was on the Needle Saturday, went up and down the standard route. It was interesting that I found the dihedral crossover to be the most awkward/trickiest part of the route. Agreed that the crossover doesn't align with the photos on the site. However, if you look out for the notch up high for where you crossover, it is pretty easy to see where you need to cross. I have a couple of pics, probably not the greatest...I'll try to insert them here. If it doesn't work, feel free to reach out and I can email them out.
Dihedral 2
Dihedral 2
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Dihedral 1
Dihedral 1
Dihedral 1 (small).jpg (88.9 KiB) Viewed 1886 times
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