I noticed that too. I thought bolting was illegal in wilderness areas because it permanently alters the natural rock features. Can someone in the know confirm/deny/clarify the regulations?
Colorado LiDAR Findings
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Re: Colorado LiDAR Findings
Last edited by supranihilest on Fri Nov 12, 2021 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Colorado LiDAR Findings
Not sure if I was ever aware of that website. But it looks to be class 4+ and bouldering routes, so not the sort of thing I do anymore.
[/quote]
It says 5.10 R which is very far away from class 4 anything.
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Re: Colorado LiDAR Findings
https://www.accessfund.org/news-and-eve ... bing-boltssupranihilest wrote: ↑Fri Nov 12, 2021 6:51 pmI noticed that too. I thought bolting was illegal in wilderness areas because it permanently alters the natural rock features. Can someone in the know confirm/deny/clarify the regulations?
http://listsofjohn.com/CompletionAll.php?M=dpage"
www.mountainproject.com/u/derick-page//110079707
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Re: Colorado LiDAR Findings
So the super short version is its a legal gray area. In the case of the West Elk Wilderness what are the regs, if any?dpage wrote: ↑Fri Nov 12, 2021 7:02 pmhttps://www.accessfund.org/news-and-eve ... bing-boltssupranihilest wrote: ↑Fri Nov 12, 2021 6:51 pmI noticed that too. I thought bolting was illegal in wilderness areas because it permanently alters the natural rock features. Can someone in the know confirm/deny/clarify the regulations?
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Re: Colorado LiDAR Findings
Ben, would you mind also checking the true summit of "Fortress Peak"? There's a sinuous dirt/chalk ridge off the commonly accepted summit that's about a foot wide, 50 horizontal feet long, and looks like it's just barely higher than the summit. It looks utterly horrific and I can't imagine it's even climbable but it's so close to the same elevation I think it warrants a check. Maybe someone else has already hand leveled it and determined it's lower. I neglected to take any photos of it this year but John Paul of LoJ was up there with me and agreed - it could be higher. I'm tempted to climb Fortress again just to get a second look at it, it's just that close, within a few feet at most. Maybe it'll collapse at some point and render my query irrelevant...
Edit: I think I found a pic in Floyd's TR. It's the big rectangular block on the right, but it's deceiving because it's only about a foot thick perpendicular to the width of the rectangle. The tiny person is standing on the summit as we currently know it.
The feature I'm talking about is not the pointy nubbin seen below the summit on the standard route. That point (seen here from Allie's/13erRetriever's TR from below) is clearly lower than the summit.
Edit: I think I found a pic in Floyd's TR. It's the big rectangular block on the right, but it's deceiving because it's only about a foot thick perpendicular to the width of the rectangle. The tiny person is standing on the summit as we currently know it.
The feature I'm talking about is not the pointy nubbin seen below the summit on the standard route. That point (seen here from Allie's/13erRetriever's TR from below) is clearly lower than the summit.
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Re: Colorado LiDAR Findings
I talked with John. He said he'll probably add full results to the peak pages when he can finish available areas by 1,000 ft elevation increments or full counties (as outlined before in a three-phase approach - soft ranks first, error range second, then everything else). He's been super busy with a new job lately.CheapCigarMan wrote: ↑Thu Nov 11, 2021 2:00 pm I'm thinking that as information becomes "official" it should be updated. Perhaps once per time increment (monthly, quarterly, .....).
What type of workload would that create? What's realistic?
From a consumer (those of us that consume this data) standpoint it might be frustrating when visiting the site one day then finds the data has changed when the site is revisited on a later date. Perhaps an explanation on the home page with an explanation.
Though they're not on the peak pages, he has added new info to the lidar page - check it out!
https://listsofjohn.com/lidar/lidar.php?
Some of the peaks I've looked at for 14ers.com members (eg Thunder Pyramid, Lightning Pyramid, and Mt Champion) I haven't yet sent him the new elevations/coordinates - I'll send those soon. (I'd found elevations for this forum, but didn't send him new coordinates).
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Re: Colorado LiDAR Findings
Some results:
El Paso and Teller county soft-ranks have been analyzed!
The two new ranked peaks in El Paso are Cascade Mountain (https://listsofjohn.com/peak/3720) and Goat Mountain (https://listsofjohn.com/peak/4710). The two new Teller peaks are Sentinel Point (https://listsofjohn.com/peak/1277) and The Crags (https://listsofjohn.com/peak/2479).
For county high point seekers, you can breath a sigh of relief concerning Montezuma county if you only did Hesperus - Hesperus is higher than Lavender.
High Dune is ranked, Star is not. We're looking at 8860 right now, but it's likely not ranked.
Mt. Bross is ranked.
T10 and 13253 results are listed. Noddle Heads North is higher than South by 10'.
El Paso and Teller county soft-ranks have been analyzed!
The two new ranked peaks in El Paso are Cascade Mountain (https://listsofjohn.com/peak/3720) and Goat Mountain (https://listsofjohn.com/peak/4710). The two new Teller peaks are Sentinel Point (https://listsofjohn.com/peak/1277) and The Crags (https://listsofjohn.com/peak/2479).
For county high point seekers, you can breath a sigh of relief concerning Montezuma county if you only did Hesperus - Hesperus is higher than Lavender.
High Dune is ranked, Star is not. We're looking at 8860 right now, but it's likely not ranked.
Mt. Bross is ranked.
T10 and 13253 results are listed. Noddle Heads North is higher than South by 10'.
Last edited by bdloftin77 on Mon Nov 15, 2021 9:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Colorado LiDAR Findings
Sure, I'll take a look! What direction is the photographer facing with your first/large picture?supranihilest wrote: ↑Sat Nov 13, 2021 5:19 pm Ben, would you mind also checking the true summit of "Fortress Peak"? There's a sinuous dirt/chalk ridge off the commonly accepted summit that's about a foot wide, 50 horizontal feet long, and looks like it's just barely higher than the summit. It looks utterly horrific and I can't imagine it's even climbable but it's so close to the same elevation I think it warrants a check. Maybe someone else has already hand leveled it and determined it's lower. I neglected to take any photos of it this year but John Paul of LoJ was up there with me and agreed - it could be higher. I'm tempted to climb Fortress again just to get a second look at it, it's just that close, within a few feet at most. Maybe it'll collapse at some point and render my query irrelevant...
Edit: I think I found a pic in Floyd's TR. It's the big rectangular block on the right, but it's deceiving because it's only about a foot thick perpendicular to the width of the rectangle. The tiny person is standing on the summit as we currently know it.
The feature I'm talking about is not the pointy nubbin seen below the summit on the standard route. That point (seen here from Allie's/13erRetriever's TR from below) is clearly lower than the summit.
I'll take a look at these.Scott P wrote: ↑Thu Nov 11, 2021 6:10 pm There are three I am curious about, but they aren't major peaks.
1. Traditionally and in guidebooks and other peak lists, the summit of Perkins Peak is considered to be the spot 7491. Listsofjohn has it listed as the interpolated point 7500:
https://listsofjohn.com/mapf?lat=40.747 ... 15&d=y&d=r
Since this is a peak I used to frequent, I'd be really curious. Personally I believe the LoJ point marked to be the true summit.
2. Here is a peak that I have done 99 times, but I'm skeptical that the highest point on LOJ is correct:
https://listsofjohn.com/peak/6564
I believe that it is slightly to the east. I brought this up on the forum, but someone said that they hand leveled it. Standing on both points, I'm skeptical.
3. When I climbed this one with my friends, his GPS on the ascent and descent indicated that this peak should be ranked:
https://listsofjohn.com/peak/6280
Of course GPS can vary, but since the results on both the ascent and descent indicated that it was ranked, I do wonder. LoJ has a note that says: May be ranked if spot elevation 6223 at the saddle is not the lowpoint.
I'd be really curious, but since it's in Moffat County, maybe LiDAR isn't available?
The point to the NE is higher. I'll send that to John soon.
Slowly crunching through the available ones.Tufftommy-BV wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 6:29 am Right now peaks 198 to 202 are all “tied” at 13580’ of elevation. Any idea how they really rank? I also assume that some soft peaks will come in above them to further alter the bicentennial list…. Thanks for posting this stuff - fascinating to follow. TT
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Re: Colorado LiDAR Findings
I was on that trip, that picture was coming off the NE ridge in an attempt to traverse high to Precipice. I may have some other pictures at home, the block in question would be to the west of the currently accepted summit.bdloftin77 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:33 amSure, I'll take a look! What direction is the photographer facing with your first/large picture?supranihilest wrote: ↑Sat Nov 13, 2021 5:19 pm Ben, would you mind also checking the true summit of "Fortress Peak"? There's a sinuous dirt/chalk ridge off the commonly accepted summit that's about a foot wide, 50 horizontal feet long, and looks like it's just barely higher than the summit. It looks utterly horrific and I can't imagine it's even climbable but it's so close to the same elevation I think it warrants a check. Maybe someone else has already hand leveled it and determined it's lower. I neglected to take any photos of it this year but John Paul of LoJ was up there with me and agreed - it could be higher. I'm tempted to climb Fortress again just to get a second look at it, it's just that close, within a few feet at most. Maybe it'll collapse at some point and render my query irrelevant...
Edit: I think I found a pic in Floyd's TR. It's the big rectangular block on the right, but it's deceiving because it's only about a foot thick perpendicular to the width of the rectangle. The tiny person is standing on the summit as we currently know it.
The feature I'm talking about is not the pointy nubbin seen below the summit on the standard route. That point (seen here from Allie's/13erRetriever's TR from below) is clearly lower than the summit.
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Re: Colorado LiDAR Findings
Yep, the block is somewhere in the northwest quadrant when standing on the summit. The photo was taken north of the summit looking roughly south, so the block is about west-northwest of the summit.Chicago Transplant wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:46 amI was on that trip, that picture was coming off the NE ridge in an attempt to traverse high to Precipice. I may have some other pictures at home, the block in question would be to the west of the currently accepted summit.bdloftin77 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:33 amSure, I'll take a look! What direction is the photographer facing with your first/large picture?supranihilest wrote: ↑Sat Nov 13, 2021 5:19 pm Ben, would you mind also checking the true summit of "Fortress Peak"? There's a sinuous dirt/chalk ridge off the commonly accepted summit that's about a foot wide, 50 horizontal feet long, and looks like it's just barely higher than the summit. It looks utterly horrific and I can't imagine it's even climbable but it's so close to the same elevation I think it warrants a check. Maybe someone else has already hand leveled it and determined it's lower. I neglected to take any photos of it this year but John Paul of LoJ was up there with me and agreed - it could be higher. I'm tempted to climb Fortress again just to get a second look at it, it's just that close, within a few feet at most. Maybe it'll collapse at some point and render my query irrelevant...
Edit: I think I found a pic in Floyd's TR. It's the big rectangular block on the right, but it's deceiving because it's only about a foot thick perpendicular to the width of the rectangle. The tiny person is standing on the summit as we currently know it.
The feature I'm talking about is not the pointy nubbin seen below the summit on the standard route. That point (seen here from Allie's/13erRetriever's TR from below) is clearly lower than the summit.
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Re: Colorado LiDAR Findings
Chicago Transplant wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:46 am I was on that trip, that picture was coming off the NE ridge in an attempt to traverse high to Precipice. I may have some other pictures at home, the block in question would be to the west of the currently accepted summit.
Thanks, guys! That'll be helpful. There's at least a chance lidar would pick up the top of the ridge. Might miss some parts as well though, if it's similar to W Eolus.supranihilest wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 9:35 amYep, the block is somewhere in the northwest quadrant when standing on the summit. The photo was taken north of the summit looking roughly south, so the block is about west-northwest of the summit.Chicago Transplant wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:46 am I was on that trip, that picture was coming off the NE ridge in an attempt to traverse high to Precipice. I may have some other pictures at home, the block in question would be to the west of the currently accepted summit.
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Re: Colorado LiDAR Findings
Thanks Ben! It looks like I made the right call climbing Cascade, Goat, and Sentinel a few years back! I'll have to bring a ladder to get The Crags. Out of curiosity, do you know which of the 3 "bumps" on Goat Mountain is the highest? I did all 3 to make sure, but I've always wondered. I'm a little disappointed that Point 9500 wasn't ranked. I've already completed the grid on that one.bdloftin77 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:31 am Some results:
El Paso and Teller county soft-ranks have been analyzed!
The two new ranked peaks in El Paso are Cascade Mountain (https://listsofjohn.com/peak/3720) and Goat Mountain (https://listsofjohn.com/peak/4710). The two new Teller peaks are Sentinel Point (https://listsofjohn.com/peak/1277) and The Crags (https://listsofjohn.com/peak/2479).
Also, I noticed for 8100 (unranked El Paso peak), the Lidar prominence is 267'... which is exactly what I calculated using GPS in my LoJ Trip Report... Woo Hoo! Called it back in 2012!