Skiing a Peak: What it takes

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bergsteigen
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Re: Skiing a Peak: What it takes

Post by bergsteigen »

Aphelion wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:06 pm
MapScientist wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:22 pm
... What's lacking in integrity is to ask for people's opinions but then supplant "blahs" when they express an opinion you don't like. If you were genuinely looking for community input you would have a discourse
...
I don't think this was a request for input. There is a specific set of standards maintained by the CO skimo community regarding what they consider 'skiing a peak' to mean, and this is a PSA on what those standards are.
Yep, a PSA. Though the concept of public and private lists had me meditating today. It made a lot of sense! One of my ski partners has splitboarded ON all the 14ers, but he has not done it from the summit in all cases. His objective was to merely ride on all of them. He didn’t put skier ikons next to the peaks. It was his goal, and he did it his way, but he didn’t claim anything he didn’t do according to the standards.
"Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games." - Ernest Hemingway (or was it Barnaby Conrad?)
Your knees only get so many bumps in life, don't waste them on moguls!
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ker0uac
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Re: Skiing a Peak: What it takes

Post by ker0uac »

Ya'll sure know how to take the fun out of mountaineering. Fun comes here to die.
Those who travel to mountain-tops are half in love with themselves and half in love with oblivion
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Re: Skiing a Peak: What it takes

Post by jmanner »

Sometimes a sidestep down to the good ski is possible, but it’s not really worth it and quick downclimb is less of a pain in the ass. As I recall Davenport skied Wetterhorn from the base of the little ledges. Besides if you don’t get it in good conditions it’s an excuse with the significant other to go back another year. I guess, I’m not sure getting all wound up about it is really worth anyone’s times. Maybe a hand motion and an eye roll. Might as well get made about people being shitty skiers “skiing the 14ers”. I’m about the same age as Otina, so hopefully my opinion is worthwhile.
A man has got to know his limitations.-Dr. Jonathan Hemlock or Harry Callahan or something F' it: http://youtu.be/lpzqQst-Sg8

'Life is too short to ski groomers'

"That man's only desire was to stand, once only, on the summit of that glorious wedge of rock...I think anyone who loves the mountains as much as that can claim to be a mountaineer, too."-Hermann Buhl, Nanga Parbat Pilgrimage
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madbuck
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Re: Skiing a Peak: What it takes

Post by madbuck »

"in·teg·ri·ty"
noun
1. the quality of being honest and having strong moral principles; moral uprightness.

Moral uprightness includes how we treat others and conduct ourselves -- the world and our interpersonal interactions are bigger than this hobby.
There is no shortage of topics, whether in hobbies, politics, etc. where a person could be "right" but a disproportionate diatribe* can reasonably be perceived as unbecoming, and the "right" person loses some respect due to the approach.
(*Having done this myself hundreds of times -- it is a flaw of literalism common to the personalities driven to achieve in hobbies like this).

Why not start with a PM?
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bergsteigen
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Re: Skiing a Peak: What it takes

Post by bergsteigen »

Jorts wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:50 pm
You're kind of being the fun police calling this guy/gal out. True, it's a low tide season... but by Dawson's own stated rules, the most skiable line on an average snow year where a little dry docking between gaps is allowable and reasonable.

The rules, to some degree, are arbitrary. You're calling this person out for not adhering to Dawson's rules. According to your rules, some lines don't count unless it's an ABOVE average snowpack year. So do we want everyone to follow Dawson's rules, or Otina's rules?

Unclear why this sticks in your craw so much as to have to call this person out. I'm fairly confident that he/she was not trying to hoodwink the forum into thinking he/she was the resident ski authority instead of you.

For the record, I might just be emotional because of a tofu induced estrogen overdose.
I don’t want to call this person out specifically. I’m doing it as a PSA because they say they didn’t know, and others also didn’t seem to know. Part of the job of the community is to inform. Plus I would rather have any debate here, than on someone’s TR. This way the ski community can respond and I don’t get trashed by a bunch of people commenting on a TR that may not get seen.

By anyone’s rules, Squaretop east ridge is NOT IN. Period. There are plenty of other peaks that are in. Yes it’s low tide season, but there are peaks that are almost always in. Let’s all go ski them and have fun!!!

For the record, NEVER eat a lot of flax seed. That has 6 times the phytoestrogens than soy does. I put myself into a world of hurt eating that crap and then going cold Turkey off it. Bleh!
"Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games." - Ernest Hemingway (or was it Barnaby Conrad?)
Your knees only get so many bumps in life, don't waste them on moguls!
“No athlete is truly tested until they’ve stared an injury in the face and come out on the other side stronger than ever” -anonymous

http://otinasadventures.com @otina
Scary_Canary
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Re: Skiing a Peak: What it takes

Post by Scary_Canary »

bergsteigen wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:32 pm
weakenedwarrior wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:26 pm In some winter 14er thread from earlier this year, someone brought up a "dirty dozen" list - namely Capitol, Snowmass, Maroon, N. Maroon, Pyramid, Eolus, N. Eolus, Windom, Sunlight, El Diente, Mt. Wilson, Wilson Peak. The comment was along the lines of "you haven't done much in winter until you start ticking off this list". Is there a similar list for skiing the 14ers where the antes are raised significantly compared to the rest of the peaks?
Yes there is, and it’s very similar. Pyramid and Capitol are the hardest of the hard, you better be a really good skier. The hard ones are: Crestone Needle, Wilson Peak, North Maroon, and then lower down the difficulty with Maroon, Mt Wilson etc.
As the gatekeeper of this sacred list of rules, where is an updated version of them for all to adhere? Since you cant stop harping on and on about rules rules rules, atleast offer up what they all are for everyone to see.

Lets clear up this confusion so you list checkers can be on the same page.
I by no means think there is any rules people have to follow to hike or ski unless you are claiming some form of accomplishment or list completion.


Its interesting you claim to be apart of this community tho. You seem more intent on gatekeeping, tearing it apart and rule bashing people instead of trying to build it.
Why not try to be polite and offer a more civil discussion to encourage the community, and build it up? They skiied a mountain, and were really happy to share the experience they just had, but you proceed to S*** all over them.
You basically just started up this thread to complain like an old boomer about how millenials ruin everything, while offering up no real substance other than a list of names of people are have or are on their way to completing.
Offer insight and education instead of just "actually! It doesn't count, kids dont care about rules these days!! Whiney little hikers have no business on talking about skiier rules so shut up, blah blah blah."

Encourage and be happy for people just getting into the sport, or who are continuing to grow their hobby. Don't shame, bash and discredit them for not knowing every rule of what does and doesn't count as this, that, and the other right off the bat.
You just come off as sour as old milk, and its pretty sad this is what people see as an example of what the "community" is like.
Keep sharpening your knife of accountability, you have many more heads to chop if thats the mission you are on.
The risk I took was calculated, but I'm terrible at math.
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Re: Skiing a Peak: What it takes

Post by bergsteigen »

Scary_Canary wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:24 pm
bergsteigen wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:32 pm
weakenedwarrior wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:26 pm In some winter 14er thread from earlier this year, someone brought up a "dirty dozen" list - namely Capitol, Snowmass, Maroon, N. Maroon, Pyramid, Eolus, N. Eolus, Windom, Sunlight, El Diente, Mt. Wilson, Wilson Peak. The comment was along the lines of "you haven't done much in winter until you start ticking off this list". Is there a similar list for skiing the 14ers where the antes are raised significantly compared to the rest of the peaks?
Yes there is, and it’s very similar. Pyramid and Capitol are the hardest of the hard, you better be a really good skier. The hard ones are: Crestone Needle, Wilson Peak, North Maroon, and then lower down the difficulty with Maroon, Mt Wilson etc.
As the gatekeeper of this sacred list of rules, where is an updated version of them for all to adhere? Since you cant stop harping on and on about rules rules rules, atleast offer up what they all are for everyone to see.

Lets clear up this confusion so you list checkers can be on the same page.
I by no means think there is any rules people have to follow to hike or ski unless you are claiming some form of accomplishment or list completion.


Its interesting you claim to be apart of this community tho. You seem more intent on gatekeeping, tearing it apart and rule bashing people instead of trying to build it.
Why not try to be polite and offer a more civil discussion to encourage the community, and build it up? They skiied a mountain, and were really happy to share the experience they just had, but you proceed to S*** all over them.
You basically just started up this thread to complain like an old boomer about how millenials ruin everything, while offering up no real substance other than a list of names of people are have or are on their way to completing.
Offer insight and education instead of just "actually! It doesn't count, kids dont care about rules these days!! Whiney little hikers have no business on talking about skiier rules so shut up, blah blah blah."

Encourage and be happy for people just getting into the sport, or who are continuing to grow their hobby. Don't shame, bash and discredit them for not knowing every rule of what does and doesn't count as this, that, and the other right off the bat.
You just come off as sour as old milk, and its pretty sad this is what people see as an example of what the "community" is like.
Keep sharpening your knife of accountability, you have many more heads to chop if thats the mission you are on.
Updated list of rules? We’ve all just followed Dawson. Why my first post was pretty much that.

I am part of the community, and I am working to build it up. I am currently working with 3 people who are new to the sport and am helping them learn how to do this sport safely. I have put in many days this year, and in past years with new people. I have put up hundreds of reports to help with beta, information and stoke.

I tried to not reference any individuals, but that gets hard when questions gets asked. I think this person will become a good part of the community and I didn’t want them to be called out years in the future because they didn’t know. Apparently there are others too that are doing this, I have not been paying attention. I’m not going to pm a bunch of people. Figured a simple forum PSA would work best. Guess not.

Supranihilist - This post was about informing, not necessarily this individual or bloody Squaretop.

Oh well, guess I’ll go back to just skiing.
"Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games." - Ernest Hemingway (or was it Barnaby Conrad?)
Your knees only get so many bumps in life, don't waste them on moguls!
“No athlete is truly tested until they’ve stared an injury in the face and come out on the other side stronger than ever” -anonymous

http://otinasadventures.com @otina
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Re: Skiing a Peak: What it takes

Post by Aphelion »

I've hiked on a couple sections of the CDT and the Appalachian trail. I'm not sure what 'through-hiking' means, but I'm going to tell everyone that I've through hiked both of them. Anyone who corrects me is just a grumpy old gatekeeper who hates cool young people.
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Re: Skiing a Peak: What it takes

Post by cottonmountaineering »

Aphelion wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:55 pm I've hiked on a couple sections of the CDT and the Appalachian trail. I'm not sure what 'through-hiking' means, but I'm going to tell everyone that I've through hiked both of them. Anyone who corrects me is just a grumpy old gatekeeper who hates cool young people.
Ive done the pct and people would make sure to walk every inch of it. If they hitched to town and got dropped off on the other side of the road in the way back, they'd cross the street twice to make sure every foot was accounted for. There's probably a reasonable middle ground in all of these things
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Re: Skiing a Peak: What it takes

Post by pvnisher »

I guess I always viewed the ski icon as a generic "I carried skis and slid some portion of it, after hiking to the summit".

Which is different than claiming a "ski descent".

If I climb a peak and ski the bits I want to ski, I would have checked the box. Because it's for me and I skied during the trip.
But I also wouldn't claim it as a ski descent.

I guess I don't necessarily view the ski icon in the same light as a claim (for which there is no checkbox).
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Re: Skiing a Peak: What it takes

Post by ltlFish99 »

I am one of the 3,000 foot rule freaks.
As I get closer to planning the remaining 14ers I need to hike, I am now starting a new list. That is the list of ones I need to hike again in order to get the 3,000 feet.
I also stopped combining peaks as my goal is 3,000 feet for each peak.
All of this is my own personal nonsense as i have read many times that getting the 3,000 feet on ones first peak of the trip, allows for multiple peaks after to be counted.
Imo, it is all personal, and I fully recognize that I am being a little weird about it.
i like that there are certain standards, call them rules, whatever about what qualifies a peak as a peak, and along those lines, I believe that having some simple qualifiers about what is considered a true peak ascent is also good.
Anyway, it looks like I have about 6 or 7 more to go than I once thought.
So be it. I will continue to enjoy the adventure.
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Re: Skiing a Peak: What it takes

Post by bergsteigen »

pvnisher wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:13 pm I guess I always viewed the ski icon as a generic "I carried skis and slid some portion of it, after hiking to the summit".

Which is different than claiming a "ski descent".

If I climb a peak and ski the bits I want to ski, I would have checked the box. Because it's for me and I skied during the trip.
But I also wouldn't claim it as a ski descent.

I guess I don't necessarily view the ski icon in the same light as a claim (for which there is no checkbox).
I guess this is the rub of it all. I failed on my first 3 14er ski descents, and would never have dreamed of checking the box for only skiing on the flanks of the peaks.

I’ve attached the screen shot from my peak list of Capitol. Not only have I not solo’d the peak, I have not been on the summit in calendar winter (a winter blue snowflake), nor have I skied off the summit aka a “ski descent”. I did get 3k, so I clicked that. I think the wording is fairly clear what the icons represent and imply, but apparently this is no longer quite so clear.
D2D6E6A9-1A2C-4B3D-A184-E74E6A5DB237.jpeg
D2D6E6A9-1A2C-4B3D-A184-E74E6A5DB237.jpeg (172.88 KiB) Viewed 3697 times
Even on my own ski webpages, I won’t count peaks I didn’t ski off the summit. I carried my skis around the Decalibron on a very windy day and then down hiked a bunch of Bross to ski powder in the S gully. I didn’t count any as a repeat ski. Quite annoying, as I had planned to tour the loop, but there was no snow. I did get 4 snowflakes - Ie calendar winter. The powder skiing in the gully was fun though!
"Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games." - Ernest Hemingway (or was it Barnaby Conrad?)
Your knees only get so many bumps in life, don't waste them on moguls!
“No athlete is truly tested until they’ve stared an injury in the face and come out on the other side stronger than ever” -anonymous

http://otinasadventures.com @otina
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