Skiing a Peak: What it takes

[jakethesnake_630]

I am the person in question in all of this.


I have climbed & (not) skied Bierstadt & Square Top (along with a ton of "descents" and "non-descents" in NE & the ADK, as well as many other lower peaks in the Front Range). I have no plans to ski all of the 14ers or the 13ers, or to claim descents, glory, or even respect. I just want to climb mountains.

I used the skier icon because I want my own record of what I have done. For what it's worth, I don't really care what anyone else's opinion about those climbs or skis are. I didn't realize there were rules; rules actually turn me off, which is part of why I like the mountains.

I'm going to continue to climb mountains, my own way, the rest of my life. Anyone who wants to get after it out there with me ... hit me up.

[d_baker]

I have no plans to ski all of the 14ers or the 13ers, or to claim descents, glory, or even respect. I just want to climb mountains.

I used the skier icon because I want my own record of what I have done. For what it's worth, I don't really care what anyone else's opinion about those climbs or skis are.

I'm going to continue to climb mountains, my own way, the rest of my life. Anyone who wants to get after it out there with me ... hit me up.

You have my respect. You're doing it for you, and that's the best reason!
I think on any peak that is checked off on one's list, there's a comment section where notes can be added (see Bergs screenshot).
One could add skied on Peak Look At Me, or, I was solo (but with 500 strangers around).
Either way, Jake, I don't think you should 'hide' your checklist over this. Personally, I like to see the checklist of others just for comparison for potential partners for unclimbed peaks between myself and the other.

This, all from a hikeneer. Does the 'neer part mean I'm almost a mountaineer? Or a hiker 'neer mountains?

[SchralpTheGnar]

The peak crushers have rules too.

[HikesInGeologicTime]

I'm not particularly interested in tossing more gasoline onto the fire here - I am >99% certain that I will never be a ski (or snowflake) finisher, and while I do intend to follow The Rules on those peaks for which I do add the icon in question next to my checkmark, I'm of the overall opinion that each person's checklist - and standards for filling it out - is entirely their own (with exceptions, which I detailed in another comment some time ago - https://14ers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=59227&start=48 - if anyone is either that invested and/or that bored).

I do, however, propose that in (dis)honor of the individual referenced here:

...Kedrowski’s attempt to ski...having not waited for a skiable line and also not summiting the peaks in questions.

...we begin referring to such a descent as Kedrow-skiing it.

[angry]

I’m not going to let a whiny hikeneer dictate skier ethics, that’s for the ski community to decide. But the winter/frozen 14er peeps can chime in with how they expect their rules to be followed - cause they do!

Why not start with a PM?

The rules are set, so follow em if you want to be considered a ski finisher or frozen finisher. If you're just doing your own thing, then it's probably best not to check the ski or snowflake icon and instead add in the memo section whatever you want about your "ski descent or winter snowflake". There are a lot of users on here that are checking off both 14er and 13ers with a snowflake even though they hiked them after calendar winter ended. Some even last week. Oh and I did PM someone and said hey, great job on XX peak but we are in spring in case you didn't know. They responded calling me a bitch, yay community!

[d_baker]

...I did PM someone and said hey, great job on XX peak but we are in spring in case you didn't know. They responded calling me a bitch, yay community!

An angry bitch at that. That's rough.

[jakethesnake_630]

The peak crushers have rules too.

lol

[aholle88]

I do, however, propose that in (dis)honor of the individual referenced here:

...Kedrowski’s attempt to ski...having not waited for a skiable line and also not summiting the peaks in questions.

...we begin referring to such a descent as Kedrow-skiing it.

How about. I skied capitol, JK!

[Scary_Canary]

Updated list of rules? We’ve all just followed Dawson. Why my first post was pretty much that.

You offered one little quote essentially, and no link to the rest of these standards set up by Dawson himself. We are automatically supposed to know all this right away I suppose tho.
I say updated rules because do they not change and evolve like the 14ers lists do? For someone to claim they have summited all the 14ers, the list is now 58 instead of 54. Or like the list of 59 winter peaks people must climb to claim being a snowflake finisher? Since some dude did it, we now all have to! Or is this community divided into 3 entirely different rule sets. Again, none of this seems to be very clear.

The information is not very clear, or easy for people to find for those just getting in the game. Or even for some who've been at it for a while now for that matter. This is very evident even in the 3000 ft. gain/loss rule debate alone.
If you're intent on seeing everyone follows the rules, then atleast offer up where to find this information. Its something you follow so closely, you should have it close by.

Does one have to physically stand on the summit block with their skis of, say Sunlight peak, to claim a summit ski descent? Even if one did not stand on or ski directly from the summit block?

[AnnaG22]

I have Castle checked on my box, and I didn’t ski it from the summit. Oh dear no, are the checkbox police going to fine me?!

In all seriousness, who cares UNLESS said person is claiming to be a finisher, then is when it matters. I believe in the ethics 100% to be considered a true finisher. But I also believe people can consider what they want (within reason) when not staking any claim to fame or whatever. When I skied Castle, it wasn’t in from the summit, but I still skied from above the N couloir and the entire length of it back to below 12k. So for myself, because I have no intention of finishing, I skied Castle. If I decide to actually finish the list (unlikely because I’d rather seek out neat routes and/or good snow), I would go back and ski it from the summit. Heck, I want to anyways because the east face is a super cool route.

I decided that I didn’t want to finish long ago.
But I guess I’m just a lousy fraud. Gosh darn it!

Seconded. I skied Castle from the highest point it had snow (60-75 feet below the summit) in May 2017 and counted that as a ski but not as a summit. Like Andrew (and with far fewer 14er skis), I have no intention of ever skiing all the 14ers. I probably won't even get around to skiing half of them.

Yes, if somebody is publicly working toward skiing all the peaks and they fudge it, that's wrong. But if they're just skiing a peak on occasion for funsies, I don't see an issue.

EDIT: Want to make sure I have this correct. Referencing Dawson's definition of a ski descent of a peak makes one a gatekeeper; referencing Dawson's ranking list for ski descent makes one a worthless noob who barely knows how to ski. Did I get that right?

[bergsteigen]

Updated list of rules? We’ve all just followed Dawson. Why my first post was pretty much that.

You offered one little quote essentially, and no link to the rest of these standards set up by Dawson himself. We are automatically supposed to know all this right away I suppose tho.
I say updated rules because do they not change and evolve like the 14ers lists do? For someone to claim they have summited all the 14ers, the list is now 58 instead of 54. Or like the list of 59 winter peaks people must climb to claim being a snowflake finisher? Since some dude did it, we now all have to! Or is this community divided into 3 entirely different rule sets. Again, none of this seems to be very clear.

The information is not very clear, or easy for people to find for those just getting in the game. Or even for some who've been at it for a while now for that matter. This is very evident even in the 3000 ft. gain/loss rule debate alone.
If you're intent on seeing everyone follows the rules, then atleast offer up where to find this information. Its something you follow so closely, you should have it close by.

Does one have to physically stand on the summit block with their skis of, say Sunlight peak, to claim a summit ski descent? Even if one did not stand on or ski directly from the summit block?

The link I have with that quote on my website was a dead link, so I just googled around on the WildSnow website to find this: https://www.loudawson.com/bios/ski-fourteeners-first/

Why I think this may be harder on the newest generation, is that I have skied with 8 of the finishers, and have met 4 of the other finishers. I’ve also skied with 9 others nearing the end. In total over 70 partners ski mountaineering. Those working on the list, find each other and all these community standards were passed on through human connection. We have gatherings where we’ve done group skis and the like. A decade ago, there weren’t that many people doing this sport! This past year or so feels like backcountry skiing is exploding!

The FB Colorado Backcountry Ski and Snowboard group has a mentorship section that I’ve been actively participating in. I’m one of the few ski mountaineering types on it. I’ve chatted with 5 people through that, and one through this site. I’m actively skiing with 2 of them. Likely 1 more after he takes his Avy1 class. We as a community need to do more of this. I can only take on so much, I hope others will follow my lead and mentor new people. It is the way!

Usually standing on a summit block is not required (many won’t have snow on it in normal years at peak time). I started my Snowmass ski standing next to the block. Many consider touching the block with a ski pole enough. One partner actually climbed on top of the Phoenix cairn for S&G.

As to why the 54 vs 58 vs 59.... uggg. The problem lies in ranked vs historic/named peaks debate. The 59 adding on North Massive for the winter list, I don’t get. Just like with the FKT’s adding in new stuff. That gives me a headache. Why my list has always been the ranked peaks. Adding in the unranked ones are for fun, since Conundrum and North Maroon are great skis. Cameron in a powder day was great.

[pvnisher]

If you're setting a world record in the 100m dash there are rules. Course, wind, surface, drug testing.

In elementary school 100 it's less, but there's also rules. Roughly.

If I'm racing my friend "from here to the parking lot", even less.

The issue is some people are trying to apply high standards to parking lot races. And both groups get mad.

"I just run for fun!"
"Then don't claim it's 100m, you didn't measure it!"
"It's for mf'n fun!"
"There's rules! "