Glissading Accident Horn's Peak (Sangres)

Threads related to Colorado mountaineering accidents but please keep it civil and respectful. Friends and relatives of fallen climbers will be reading these posts.
Forum rules
Please be respectful when posting - family and friends of fallen climbers might be reading this forum.
mtn_hound
Posts: 158
Joined: 9/15/2016
Trip Reports (0)
 

Re: Glissading Accident Horn's Peak (Sangres)

Post by mtn_hound »

jmanner wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 11:10 am
CaptCO wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 7:52 am Did they not read the avalanche risk assessment? I may be new but atleast I learn from my mistakes. Best wishes for a full recovery if seriously injured
Hang on, this guy has to get rescued off of Belford?! He’s now on here taking s**t about a rescue?
He's the best, isn't he?
User avatar
CheapCigarMan
Posts: 570
Joined: 12/10/2014
14ers: 58  2 
13ers: 108 2
Trip Reports (1)
 

Re: Glissading Accident Horn's Peak (Sangres)

Post by CheapCigarMan »

supranihilest wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 11:05 am
CheapCigarMan wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 10:52 am Same thing happened on "Lackawanna" last month on the 25th. Same slope angle. Same depth. Only difference is thankfully, the skier that caused it didn't get hurt.
https://www.14ers.com/php14ers/peakstat ... cnum=15851
There are two commonalities between the report mentioned here, for "Lackawanna", and the accident on Horn:
  1. Warm, wet snow avalanches
  2. I am in the vicinity
Take from that what you will. :lol:
It wasn't as warm that day but it was warm which I think contributed to the slide.

Though, I did perceive that from you at the TH.
You, my friend, are an amazing human. I'd even say, a supranihilest! :bicep: 8) :horns:
I should be on a mountain
Ptglhs
Posts: 1478
Joined: 1/6/2016
14ers: 58  8 
13ers: 86 3
Trip Reports (4)
 

Re: Glissading Accident Horn's Peak (Sangres)

Post by Ptglhs »

jmanner wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 11:10 am Hang on, this guy has to get rescued off of Belford?! He’s now on here taking s**t about a rescue?
He talked s**t about a guy who self rescued on shavano and lost his legs below the knees. Then he had to be rescued off of Bel/Ox and tried to downplay it as "I didn't need it but my friend's friend freaked out." Now he's talking s**t about someone who had an accident in the mountains and needed SAR. Did I miss anything?
ker0uac
Posts: 547
Joined: 8/30/2016
Trip Reports (0)
 

Re: Glissading Accident Horn's Peak (Sangres)

Post by ker0uac »

Did this group live in Custer County? If not, when do we start criticizing them for breaking the law? In another recent thread "Boulder man is rescued by Brainard Lake", there were a lot of people berating that man.

I would never talk s**t about what happened up on the mountain, but I will criticize the decision of going there because despite completely disagreeing with these rules, I am respecting them though it's getting harder by the day when I see so many CRs being posted every weekend.
Those who travel to mountain-tops are half in love with themselves and half in love with oblivion
User avatar
highpilgrim
Posts: 3186
Joined: 3/14/2008
14ers: 58 
13ers: 84 1
Trip Reports (1)
 

Re: Glissading Accident Horn's Peak (Sangres)

Post by highpilgrim »

Well, Ker0uac; I guess you got your answer about why you shouldn't just blah blah concerns about SAR folks and the risk they assume.

Now post away on your rationalizations about the dismissive attitude.
quaternion wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 8:32 am
ker0uac wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 6:58 am So question - why were so many different SAR teams needed? ... The person wasn't MIA, wasn't buried deep and it was wet snow. The person was injured and needed medevac, but I'd think that a chopper with 2-3 people could handle that.
It's a valid question, and rescue teams get it a lot: "Why are there so many of you here?" For this particular case, I would have *wanted* at least 30 rescuers in the field. At start up, it is possible that the rescuers had valid GPS coordinates of the patient, but more likely had a rough description; without knowing how accurate that description was, this (like most rescues) would begin as a search. Even with a good location description (and a helicopter en route) you need to plan for a ground evac to a road/TH. That looks like about 2000' down over 1.5 miles, cross country, to reach a trail, and then another 2.5 miles of trail carry. Carrying even a light adult, that is an immense amount of work (think about rotating out a crew of 6 litter bearers every hundred yards). Rescues are very labor intensive...and it would be irresponsible to send a helicopter (ATV, snowmobile) without a backup plan for mechanical failure. And on top of that, right now there are plenty of volunteer rescuers who are personally high risk for Covid or have a high risk family member, so teams may find themselves short handed compared to normal times. And in case a patient has Covid, no team wants to deploy all their members on a single call right now. Etc. You could do the rescue with fewer people, but it would be slower, and would put the rescuers at greater risk.

Hopefully that clarifies some...and thanks for caring enough to ask.
Call on God, but row away from the rocks.
Hunter S Thompson

Walk away from the droning and leave the hive behind.
Dick Derkase
User avatar
martinleroux
Posts: 299
Joined: 4/6/2012
14ers: 28 
13ers: 23
Trip Reports (2)
 

Re: Glissading Accident Horn's Peak (Sangres)

Post by martinleroux »

ker0uac wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 12:01 pmDid this group live in Custer County? If not, when do we start criticizing them for breaking the law?
"Breaking the law" would be an exaggeration. Unlike some other small counties, Custer County hasn't tried to prohibit non-residents from accessing "their" public lands. Colorado's latest public health order discourages recreational travel outside your own "community", but it's a somewhat vague guideline, not a strict prohibition.
User avatar
CreekRunner
Posts: 293
Joined: 10/21/2014
14ers: 35  3 
13ers: 35 5
Trip Reports (5)
 

Re: Glissading Accident Horn's Peak (Sangres)

Post by CreekRunner »

Eli Boardman wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 9:48 am I never would have guessed something like that would slide, very informative and good to know. It <looks> like the snow was only a few inches deep where it broke. Even when it did break, it's surprising to me that such a benign-looking starting zone could carry someone. I guess all it has to do is knock off your balance.

Anyway, definitely a good heads-up for those of us (particularly myself) who would have probably thought that slope was not a concern (yes I know the angle).
I'm in the same boat as you, Eli. Looking at the pictures, I would have thought the slope was pretty innocuous and similar to something I would see in summer; a small (albeit steep) channel of snow. Evidently the snow wasn't consolidated and resulted in a slide. It's definitely a lesson learned on how avalanches sizable enough to hurt you can break on any size slope.
ker0uac
Posts: 547
Joined: 8/30/2016
Trip Reports (0)
 

Re: Glissading Accident Horn's Peak (Sangres)

Post by ker0uac »

highpilgrim wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 12:32 pm Well, Ker0uac; I guess you got your answer about why you shouldn't just blah blah concerns about SAR folks and the risk they assume.

Now post away on your rationalizations about the dismissive attitude.
I think you misunderstood my "blah blah". I didn't want to restate all the arguments that were brought up about SAR and Covid and was trying to be economical with my words. I apologize if it came off as being disrespectful.

While I disagree with those arguments and I will always voice my opinions, I am a teamplayer and I follow the rules, guidelines, laws, blah blah :)
Those who travel to mountain-tops are half in love with themselves and half in love with oblivion
User avatar
stoopdude
Posts: 118
Joined: 6/26/2013
14ers: 57  3 
13ers: 72
Trip Reports (0)
 

Re: Glissading Accident Horn's Peak (Sangres)

Post by stoopdude »

CreekRunner wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 1:04 pm
Eli Boardman wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 9:48 am I never would have guessed something like that would slide, very informative and good to know. It <looks> like the snow was only a few inches deep where it broke. Even when it did break, it's surprising to me that such a benign-looking starting zone could carry someone. I guess all it has to do is knock off your balance.

Anyway, definitely a good heads-up for those of us (particularly myself) who would have probably thought that slope was not a concern (yes I know the angle).
I'm in the same boat as you, Eli. Looking at the pictures, I would have thought the slope was pretty innocuous and similar to something I would see in summer; a small (albeit steep) channel of snow. Evidently the snow wasn't consolidated and resulted in a slide. It's definitely a lesson learned on how avalanches sizable enough to hurt you can break on any size slope.
It's easy to Monday morning quarterback on this forum so I'll just say it, I probably would've glissed that slope as well.
User avatar
mtnkub
Posts: 415
Joined: 8/7/2009
14ers: 58  1  7 
13ers: 116 4 4
Trip Reports (5)
 

Re: Glissading Accident Horn's Peak (Sangres)

Post by mtnkub »

ker0uac wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 1:06 pm While I disagree with those arguments and I will always voice my opinions, I am a teamplayer and I follow the rules, guidelines, laws, blah blah :)
Cool! But that kinda makes you that one nagging kid on the team bus.
User avatar
SurfNTurf
Posts: 1890
Joined: 8/20/2009
14ers: 58  28 
13ers: 127 7
Trip Reports (48)
 
Contact:

Re: Glissading Accident Horn's Peak (Sangres)

Post by SurfNTurf »

stoopdude wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 1:15 pm
It's easy to Monday morning quarterback on this forum so I'll just say it, I probably would've glissed that slope as well.
At first glance, I can't say I disagree. The slope certainly looks innocuous from the pictures. The biggest red flag for me was that it occurred at 2:45 p.m. on a southeast-facing aspect during a heat wave. We weren't there, but I have to imagine the snow was pretty sloppy. Who knows what, if any, of the traditional wet slide warning signs were present? Not to mention a competent glissader would be on and off that slope in a matter of minutes -- easy to see how the decisions were made, and anyone who says "that DEFINITELY wouldn't have happened to me" is probably lying to themselves. The takeaway lesson I took from the CAIC report is to still remain vigilant, even in spring when things might appear safe on the surface. And start early.
“There are two kinds of climbers: those who climb because their heart sings when they’re in the mountains, and all the rest.” - Alex Lowe

"There have been joys too great to describe in words, and there have been griefs upon which I cannot dare to dwell; and with those in mind I say, 'Climb if you will, but remember that courage and strength are nought without prudence, and that a momentary negligence may destroy the happiness of a lifetime. Do nothing in haste, look well to each step, and from the beginning think what may be the end.'" - Edward Whymper
ker0uac
Posts: 547
Joined: 8/30/2016
Trip Reports (0)
 

Re: Glissading Accident Horn's Peak (Sangres)

Post by ker0uac »

mtnkub wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 2:14 pm
ker0uac wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 1:06 pm While I disagree with those arguments and I will always voice my opinions, I am a teamplayer and I follow the rules, guidelines, laws, blah blah :)
Cool! But that kinda makes you that one nagging kid on the team bus.
Yep, that one nagging kid is keeping groupthink in check, you are welcome!
Those who travel to mountain-tops are half in love with themselves and half in love with oblivion
Post Reply