Elbert S&R last night

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Wentzl
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Re: Elbert S&R last night

Post by Wentzl » Tue Nov 10, 2020 8:58 pm

Who told you that?

Wanna buy a bridge?
Shorter of Breath and One Day Closer . . .

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Re: Elbert S&R last night

Post by DaveLanders » Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:25 pm

SkiFree wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 7:41 pm
I was told that purchasing a fishing license also doubled as a S&R "get out of jail free card" that let you get away without paying for a helicopter rescue.



So I have been buying a fishing license for the last 15 years for no damn reason!

Why does an ambulance ride cost a fortune while S&R is asked to risk their lives for free
A Flight For Life helicopter ride is a medical expense, not a SAR expense, so you and/or your medical insurance are going to get billed for that.

If a military helicopter plucks you off a precarious position on a mountain, that is a SAR expense, and you won't get billed for that. (The military takes that out of their training budget)

Your COSAR card or hunting or fishing license is not rescue insurance. A SAR team that rescues someone with one of those things may be able to get reimbursed for their expenses from the pool of money the state sets aside from part of the COSAR cards and hunting and fishing license sales.
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Re: Elbert S&R last night

Post by curt86iroc » Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:27 pm

Trotter wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 7:53 am
Herbert wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 7:07 am
douglas wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:10 pm

As much as you’d like to see them pay, it sets a bad precedent. Maybe if they knew they had a big bill coming they might not have called and tried to get out on their own, ending in disaster. From what I have heard SAR is typically pretty adamant about not sending a bill for that very reason.
That's a valid point. There are pros and cons. Here is an article that does a pretty good job of framing the debate.
http://content.time.com/time/nation/art ... 21,00.html
It really is a tough call on if people should be charged or not. For a long time I thought if someone required rescue that was uninjured, they should pay. It would reimburse rescuers from the cases like the people who climbed little bear and then decided they were too scared to go down, or people who made terrible decisions to go hiking at noon in November in jeans without checking weather, or the guy who did chicago basin and brought no food. But on the flip side, would these people (who already proved their poor judgement) get themselves into real trouble, and now require the same rescue but with broken bones, hypothermia, etc. Making things harder and more expensive for the rescuers. Plus, once the word got out that all you needed was an injury to get out of paying $20,000... I bet suddenly they'd have back pain, or sprained ankles, etc.

From personal experience, I once helped an injured party on Snowmass. Took a fall, possibly broken ribs and foot. Someone had a SPOT and offered to send in rescue for him. His first question was, does it cost money? When we told him it might, if a private chopper showed up, he declined rescue and said his friends would get him out on foot.

I seriously HOPE that people who got rescued donate money to the rescuers organizations that covers their own personal rescue costs, but I bet you they find all sorts of reasons not to. I wonder if anyone on here who has been rescued, or anyone who works for SAR, would enlighten us on if that happens.
private helos do not respond to SAR calls in CO. medical helos like FFL are used to transport patient, and when they do, they are acting as an air ambulance which is a medical expense (as mentioned above).
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Re: Elbert S&R last night

Post by CaptCO » Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:34 pm

Just a heads up Garmin offers HELO-assisted insurance, quite cheap actually.
"It's a thing if you want it to be a thing. What others think of something is irrelevant." -OldSchool
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curt86iroc
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Re: Elbert S&R last night

Post by curt86iroc » Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:37 pm

SkiFree wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 7:41 pm
I was told that purchasing a fishing license also doubled as a S&R "get out of jail free card" that let you get away without paying for a helicopter rescue.



So I have been buying a fishing license for the last 15 years for no damn reason!

Why does an ambulance ride cost a fortune while S&R is asked to risk their lives for free
FYI here is more info form the state on how CORSAR funds are actually used...
https://cdola.colorado.gov/funding-prog ... escue-fund
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Re: Elbert S&R last night

Post by SkiFree » Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:46 pm

CaptCO wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:34 pm
Just a heads up Garmin offers HELO-assisted insurance, quite cheap actually.
I also got suckered into that as well but i was really starting to feel like a complete sucker until Dave's post.

Curt thanks for the info...looks like there are a few good opportunities to donate on there
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Re: Elbert S&R last night

Post by curt86iroc » Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:50 pm

CaptCO wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:34 pm
Just a heads up Garmin offers HELO-assisted insurance, quite cheap actually.
keep in mind, your insurance should cover the majority of charges for an air ambulance ride (just like ground ambulance). I know there are stories in the news of people sometime being charged the remainder of what their insurance refused to pay (i.e. balanced billing), but there is usually another contributing factor when this happens (like the provider being out of network). of course, one of the main arguments is the subject generally doesnt have a choice when a helo is called for them, and this is where things get weird. for sure, the system needs some kind of reform..

https://cohealthinitiative.org/cchi-in- ... ng-issues/
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Re: Elbert S&R last night

Post by Trotter » Wed Nov 11, 2020 1:59 pm

SkiFree wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 7:41 pm
I was told that purchasing a fishing license also doubled as a S&R "get out of jail free card" that let you get away without paying for a helicopter rescue.



So I have been buying a fishing license for the last 15 years for no damn reason!

Why does an ambulance ride cost a fortune while S&R is asked to risk their lives for free
People have a lot of misconceptions on the CORSAR card. The truth is, it costs money, that money goes into a fund that helps funds all rescues in colorado. Thats it.

And SAR gets paid for their rescues, just by tax dollars, donations, military funds, etc. So we all pay for someone's rescue. Thats why these people who have to get rescued for poor judgement anger me. We literally pay for their stupidity.
After climbing a great hill, one only finds that there are many more hills to climb. -Nelson Mandela
Whenever I climb I am followed by a dog called Ego. -Nietzsche
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curt86iroc
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Re: Elbert S&R last night

Post by curt86iroc » Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:08 pm

Trotter wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 1:59 pm
SkiFree wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 7:41 pm
I was told that purchasing a fishing license also doubled as a S&R "get out of jail free card" that let you get away without paying for a helicopter rescue.



So I have been buying a fishing license for the last 15 years for no damn reason!

Why does an ambulance ride cost a fortune while S&R is asked to risk their lives for free
People have a lot of misconceptions on the CORSAR card. The truth is, it costs money, that money goes into a fund that helps funds all rescues in colorado. Thats it.

And SAR gets paid for their rescues, just by tax dollars, donations, military funds, etc. So we all pay for someone's rescue. Thats why these people who have to get rescued for poor judgement anger me. We literally pay for their stupidity.
this is misleading. SAR is not funded directly by tax dollars. the majority of funding comes in the form of grants and donations. the truth is, SAR in CO is dramatically underfunded, with most individual members paying out of pocket for things like equipment and gas.

https://www.dailycamera.com/2020/11/10/ ... nd-rescue/

if you want to change this, consider writing to your state rep and ask them to support SB20-130: https://leg.colorado.gov/bills/sb20-130

https://www.themountainmail.com/free_co ... 0f4f3.html
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Re: Elbert S&R last night

Post by SkaredShtles » Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:31 pm

curt86iroc wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:08 pm
<snip>
this is misleading. SAR is not funded directly by tax dollars. the majority of funding comes in the form of grants and donations. the truth is, SAR in CO is dramatically underfunded, with most individual members paying out of pocket for things like equipment and gas.

https://www.dailycamera.com/2020/11/10/ ... nd-rescue/

if you want to change this, consider writing to your state rep and ask them to support SB20-130: https://leg.colorado.gov/bills/sb20-130

https://www.themountainmail.com/free_co ... 0f4f3.html
I think properly funding our SAR crews from a state level is an excellent idea and a long time coming. I will contact my rep and let them know I support this.
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