Avalanche San Juans- The Nose

Threads related to Colorado mountaineering accidents but please keep it civil and respectful. Friends and relatives of fallen climbers will be reading these posts.
Forum rules
Please be respectful when posting - family and friends of fallen climbers might be reading this forum.
d_baker
Posts: 3095
Joined: 11/18/2007
14ers: 58  15 
13ers: 348 11
Trip Reports (59)
 

Re: Avalanche San Juans- The Nose

Post by d_baker »

curt86iroc wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:54 am This has been an absolutely horrible weak for avalanche fatalities in the US. Aside from CO, people have been killed in NH, CA and UT. This is the single worst weak for avalanche fatalities in (my) recent memory (not counting sheep creek)...

https://www.necn.com/news/local/backcou ... e/2398534/

https://www.shastaavalanche.org/avalanc ... ality#/all

https://utahavalanchecenter.org/avalanche/58594
Also 3 hikers in Alaska.
User avatar
Wentzl
Posts: 1022
Joined: 7/29/2008
14ers: 58  20 
13ers: 55
Trip Reports (49)
 

Re: Avalanche San Juans- The Nose

Post by Wentzl »

Shorter of Breath and One Day Closer . . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZXKgl8turY

"Social Justice" = Injustice
User avatar
HikerGuy
Posts: 1406
Joined: 5/25/2006
14ers: 58 
13ers: 426 8
Trip Reports (9)
 

Re: Avalanche San Juans- The Nose

Post by HikerGuy »

And there is a hiker missing in Boulder County out of the Hessie Trailhead. Last cell phone ping was in the vicinity of the CDT.

https://www.bouldercounty.org/news/miss ... ue-action/
User avatar
Carl_Healy
Posts: 271
Joined: 7/29/2020
14ers: 19  3 
13ers: 50 1 3
Trip Reports (4)
 
Contact:

Re: Avalanche San Juans- The Nose

Post by Carl_Healy »

Jorts wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:38 am
I think it was briefly mentioned earlier this season before we had any snow but it's more relevant now than ever - CAIC's recent study about the experience level of who is involved in avalanche incidents is telling. It's a bell curve.
My AIARE instructor pointed this out right at the end of the course.
Paraphrasing: "Thanks for taking AIARE I. You're now statistically MORE likely to be caught in an avalanche."

:(
If you can't run, you walk
If you can't walk, you crawl
If you can't crawl, you find someone to carry you
User avatar
OldTrad
Posts: 275
Joined: 2/12/2017
14ers: 36 
13ers: 10
Trip Reports (4)
 

Re: Avalanche San Juans- The Nose

Post by OldTrad »

TomPierce wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:34 am
Jorts wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:38 am True avalanche experts understand the law of averages. And the destructive power of avalanches. They realize that even if they could ski a slope 999 times out of 1000 without it sliding, that is not sufficient for reaching old age while skiing 100+ backcountry days every winter. They are not lulled into complacency and overconfidence by positive feedback loops. And they realize they cannot outsmart the snowpack and terrain so they leave wider margins knowing their snowpack assessments lack 100% certainty. Even with justified confidence that a slope will not slide, they still consider what layer would fail, how deeply it would break, and what terrain traps exist if it did.
I agree with this. I recall when I took avalanche training in the pre-AIARE days that our instructor shared an anecdote: The dude who wrote either Snow Sense or The ABC's avalanche book (can't remember which one) had his class analyze a slope for most of a day, then it was pronounced probably safe for travel. That same day it slid. Not sure if that's true or an urban myth, but when delivered in class it was a bit jarring.

I try to adopt a similar mindset when tech climbing, always trying to double check knots, etc. even though I've probably tied in way over a thousand times. Play with snakes long enough, a bite is inevitable, regardless of your skill level.

And condolences to the families and friends of those who died. A rough snow season, for sure.

-Tom
+1
User avatar
Chicago Transplant
Posts: 4008
Joined: 9/7/2004
14ers: 58  12  24 
13ers: 697 39 34
Trip Reports (66)
 

Re: Avalanche San Juans- The Nose

Post by Chicago Transplant »

Carl_Healy wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:07 am
Jorts wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:38 am
I think it was briefly mentioned earlier this season before we had any snow but it's more relevant now than ever - CAIC's recent study about the experience level of who is involved in avalanche incidents is telling. It's a bell curve.
My AIARE instructor pointed this out right at the end of the course.
Paraphrasing: "Thanks for taking AIARE I. You're now statistically MORE likely to be caught in an avalanche."

:(
Definitely agree.

The advice that stuck with me from my AIARE I class was "don't ski something with an avalanche beacon that you wouldn't ski without one". In other words, the point is to avoid getting caught in the first place. Even with beacons people can be buried too deep/too long or suffer life threatening/ending trauma from the ride through the debris and that you should not rely on a beacon to save you.
"We want the unpopular challenge. We want to test our intellect!" - Snapcase
"You are not what you own" - Fugazi
"Life's a mountain not a beach" - Fortune Cookie I got at lunch the other day
User avatar
RyGuy
Posts: 800
Joined: 5/30/2011
14ers: 58  35 
13ers: 230 4
Trip Reports (1)
 

Re: Avalanche San Juans- The Nose

Post by RyGuy »

While we are discussing... San Juan County SAR has put out a request for help in paying for broken and damaged equipment from this week's recovery mission.

Keep in mind they also had a rough recovery mission back right before Christmas for 2 skiers killed on The Battleship.

If you have some spare change, I am sure they would appreciate the help: https://www.facebook.com/sjcoem/

-Ryan
"Climbing mountains is the only thing I know that combines the best of the physical, spiritual, and emotional world all rolled into one." -Steve Gladbach
User avatar
RyGuy
Posts: 800
Joined: 5/30/2011
14ers: 58  35 
13ers: 230 4
Trip Reports (1)
 

Re: Avalanche San Juans- The Nose

Post by RyGuy »

CaptCO wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 1:12 pm
RyGuy wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:40 am While we are discussing... San Juan County SAR has put out a request for help in paying for broken and damaged equipment from this week's recovery mission.

Keep in mind they also had a rough recovery mission back right before Christmas for 2 skiers killed on The Battleship.

If you have some spare change, I am sure they would appreciate the help: https://www.facebook.com/sjcoem/

-Ryan
Ryan, a donation link for those of us without Facebook? Thanks for the tip
Alec- Here is the direct PayPal donation page they have setup: https://www.paypal.com/donate/?hosted_b ... ahZpNVZ4m4
"Climbing mountains is the only thing I know that combines the best of the physical, spiritual, and emotional world all rolled into one." -Steve Gladbach
User avatar
speth
Posts: 684
Joined: 4/16/2010
14ers: 58  5 
13ers: 44
Trip Reports (3)
 

Re: Avalanche San Juans- The Nose

Post by speth »

Is there any definitive studies on the impact from airbag systems? Anecdotally, it seems to make a huge difference, but I'd appreciate to see a comparison or a list of escape/not when using an airbag.

All I want is to just have fun, live my life like a son of a gun
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Sarcasm or not, it's not even funny to post something like this. Not at this time. Reported.
User avatar
Snow_Dog_frassati
Posts: 118
Joined: 3/29/2020
14ers: 58  8  5 
13ers: 84 4 9
Trip Reports (0)
 
Contact:

Re: Avalanche San Juans- The Nose

Post by Snow_Dog_frassati »

speth wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:18 am Is there any definitive studies on the impact from airbag systems? Anecdotally, it seems to make a huge difference, but I'd appreciate to see a comparison or a list of escape/not when using an airbag.
I have heard numbers as high as a "50% better chance of survival." I got that from an episode of the Snowbrains podcast.
"A good decision yesterday doesn't absolve me from a bad decision today"
curt86iroc
Posts: 219
Joined: 5/29/2013
14ers: 14 
Trip Reports (0)
 

Re: Avalanche San Juans- The Nose

Post by curt86iroc »

speth wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:18 am Is there any definitive studies on the impact from airbag systems? Anecdotally, it seems to make a huge difference, but I'd appreciate to see a comparison or a list of escape/not when using an airbag.
not definitive, but interesting analysis specific to CO:

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/ ... EM-Avi.pdf
User avatar
gb
Posts: 989
Joined: 12/12/2006
14ers: 56  54  6 
13ers: 67 54
Trip Reports (26)
 

Re: Avalanche San Juans- The Nose

Post by gb »

speth wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:18 am Is there any definitive studies on the impact from airbag systems? Anecdotally, it seems to make a huge difference, but I'd appreciate to see a comparison or a list of escape/not when using an airbag.
Most research has been done in Europe, where the ski terrain is far more favorable to successful airbag use (fewer trees and big fan-shaped avalanche runout zones in many cases). Airbags aren't necessarily helpful in gladed terrain where trauma is as big of a concern as getting buried. Here's at least one study done in NA: https://backcountryaccess.com/en-us/blo ... he-airbags

Honestly it's quite surprising that the airbag was helpful in this case, since they don't tend to be very effective in terrain traps like the gully in this accident. The skier was still buried, but the airbag was visible so the rescuers didn't have to waste any time searching and could quickly dig him/her out.

Both skiers in the accident on Battleship this season, which is just a couple of miles away, deployed airbags but were buried anyway. I use one throughout the winter but it's no magic bullet.
Post Reply