6 caught in avy on Torreys (6/6)

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blazintoes
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Re: 6 caught in avy on Torreys (6/6)

Post by blazintoes »

Agree Keifer. Thank you for suggesting this. I tend to not get involved in the daily chatter or bickering especially when they delve into backseat mountaineering/armchair quarterbacking. We're all out here living life to the fullest and we have this awesome website for useful information. We must be careful with the platform we are afforded here and maintain respect at all times. Most armchair experts here are big fish in a little pond. "Hey can you see me down here from waaaay up there?" When we criticize somebody on the web we should try to remind ourselves about how little we know about them or their situation.

This thread quickly turned sour and was disrespectful and inconsiderate to someone I consider a 14ers.com ambassador. Please have empathy for Brit and his family.

I second closing this thread.
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Dave B
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Re: 6 caught in avy on Torreys (6/6)

Post by Dave B »

Hard disagree on the thread locking unless previous accident discussion threads (many of which have devolved into bickering) have been locked as well, I don't remember any that have, but I also never really paid attention. Locking a thread simply because one of the parties involved is known by many on this forum is a poor precedent to set, IMO.

I deleted my posts, nonetheless.
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curt86iroc
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Re: 6 caught in avy on Torreys (6/6)

Post by curt86iroc »

man, you guys should see how far threads get on MP before they're locked. this is nothing...
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Re: 6 caught in avy on Torreys (6/6)

Post by Monster5 »

There are likely to be a dozen parties on Dead Dog this weekend.
The side discussions aside, if this timely thread causes a handful of them to start their climbs earlier, then I couldn't care less about someone's pride or feelings taking a hit.
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Re: 6 caught in avy on Torreys (6/6)

Post by ker0uac »

wow so much love going around, with friends like this, Britt needs no enemies.

I have a theory for why some people get so overly critical and somewhat hostile when hearing of accidents. We all know accidents can occur, but even to an experienced mountaineer, hearing of one that just happened in a place where you go often, can be triggering. So I think it's an emotionally charged but unconscious response to the thought "oh s**t, it happened to them, it could happen to me". To counter that, some people want to quickly blame someone claiming it was an avoidable mistake. It soothes their own internal fears, thinking "I could easily spot those warnings signs, so I don't need to be afraid".

It's similar to when I would hear of horror stories of covid. I would quickly say "they must have been old, or sick, or obese, etc", coz since I am none of those things, I could dismiss that as "not applicable". However, it was terrifying when the person turned out to be young, healthy and fit.
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Re: 6 caught in avy on Torreys (6/6)

Post by randalmartin »

Britt is an amazing man and dear friend to me, he has taught me and so many others a ton. Most of all his attitude and encouraging spirit help others achieve more than they thought possible including myself. Heal quickly Britt!
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Re: 6 caught in avy on Torreys (6/6)

Post by AndrewLyonsGeibel »

First of all I wish Britt a quick and full recovery. Carpooled with him before and he’s a really nice dude.

It’s hard to say what conditions looked like to the people there. 9 AM and with the lack of overnight freezing does seem questionable. What can I say I’ve only ever been to the apron of dead dog (and of course across the top) , so my experience is limited.

Britt seems like a humble enough guy that when the time comes, I’m sure he will likely be willing to answer questions candidly, but no way in heck would I text him to ask at this time.

I know I’ve screwed up before. It happens to all of us.
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Re: 6 caught in avy on Torreys (6/6)

Post by TomPierce »

I'll echo others: I hope Britt heals quickly and well. I've climbed with him and he's a good guy, an asset to the mountain community.

That aside, I recall that Dawson's 14er guides had a pretty extensive discussion on snow climbing vs. season vs the effects of the sun/slope aspect (what I recall Dawson calling "sunhit"). I don't recall many details, it's been many years since I looked at those, but I do recall it was a good discussion, certainly way more than in the Roach guides. For those who are either new to couloir climbing or just want a refresher on the effects of sun/aspect and potential rock fall the Dawson guides might be worth a look. To Monster's point above, if we can prevent further mishaps we should at least try to do so.

Be safe out there.

-Tom
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lodgling
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Re: 6 caught in avy on Torreys (6/6)

Post by lodgling »

Just here to say two things for what they are worth:

1. I’ve been lucky enough to climb a lot of steep crappy CO spring snow without a material incident to learn that one of the only things you can control is your start time. TH sleep is overrated and headlamp hiking is its own experience.

2. https://www.gofundme.com/f/britt-jones-medical-expenses
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Re: 6 caught in avy on Torreys (6/6)

Post by Wildernessjane »

ker0uac wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:04 pm I have a theory for why some people get so overly critical and somewhat hostile when hearing of accidents. We all know accidents can occur, but even to an experienced mountaineer, hearing of one that just happened in a place where you go often, can be triggering. So I think it's an emotionally charged but unconscious response to the thought "oh s**t, it happened to them, it could happen to me". To counter that, some people want to quickly blame someone claiming it was an avoidable mistake. It soothes their own internal fears, thinking "I could easily spot those warnings signs, so I don't need to be afraid".
Spot on.

Personally, I take issue only with the extreme hostility and judgmental attitudes in some on here. Does anyone really think Britt and/or CMC will not be taking a closer look and seriously reflecting on what has happened here? You think your harsh comments are needed to make sure this happens? It’s already happening. I guarantee it. Britt has contributed so much to the 14ers.com and CMC communities but he is not infallible. None of us are. I have made bad calls in the mountains and ended up in situations that put me at risk. I have had luck on my side. I have been with folks much more experienced than myself who have done the same. I suspect many of you on here have also done the same. Remember...the lack of a negative outcome does not mean it was a good decision. I worry more about people who repeatedly get away with bad decisions and I see this happen a lot. I am not “defending” anyone or any organization here but let’s keep things productive. There are several posts on here that cover what can be learned from this and about understanding spring snow conditions/risks WITHOUT bashing any individual or organization. That’s what I’m talking about.

Britt, I wish you a speedy recovery. Hang in there.
Last edited by Wildernessjane on Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:24 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: 6 caught in avy on Torreys (6/6)

Post by Jay521 »

Tornadoman wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:47 am Britt,

Sorry to hear that you were injured in this accident. Wishing you a full and speedy recovery!

-Andrew G.
Ditto this.

Jay
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Re: 6 caught in avy on Torreys (6/6)

Post by docinco »

kerouac and wj, thank you for your kind and measured responses, with which i agree. fortunately, in 63 years of climbing, i have never made a mistake, except of course the time that i...and the episode in which...and...
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