Capitol Peak Fatality

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JROSKA
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Re: Capitol Peak Fatality

Post by JROSKA »

Gandalf69 wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 7:52 pmUse some critical thinking skills. The route is class 4, a witness saw her dislodge a rock that was loose. How much more do we need to talk about it? This isn't freshman economics in college. For all you people who want to "analyze" everything, how about letting us know about Capitol first hand? Btw, they already made a trend about analyzing what happened, "testing rocks while climbing". Please pay some attention, and be respectful. That should go without saying, but so should having critical thinking.
Gandalf69 wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 7:59 pmIf you have questions about the peak, I'd suggest doing it yourself. I'm sure if you had experience on the route, your questions would be answered about this accident.
So essentially you are the person who says "look it up on google" when someone has a question or needs help with something. That's kind of the "bare minimum" of helping each other out in a community. It seems like we have so much more to offer each other here. You say, discuss it somewhere else, but you don't sound overly thrilled that the other thread "testing rocks while climbing" was started either. I think sometimes when there's an accident, people in this forum just want to talk things through, get different perspectives, there's lots of valuable insight from so many people here & I guess I just question how healthy it is to just shut down the dialogue and say, figure it out yourself on your own damn time. People say, "don't do it in the memorial thread, do it somewhere else" but you guys tend to try to shut down the discussion in those other places as well.

All PCrotty41 did here was basically ask some questions. That's disrespectful? Asking questions? Open discussion is always best. Suppression / avoidance always leads to bigger issues.
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Trotter
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Re: Capitol Peak Fatality

Post by Trotter »

If we lived in a world where nothing could be discussed because it might hurt someones feelings, we'd never talk or learn.
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Re: Capitol Peak Fatality

Post by timisimaginary »

Trotter wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:30 am If we lived in a world where nothing could be discussed because it might hurt someones feelings, we'd never talk or learn.
It’s not even that. I can understand being respectful towards the friends/family of someone who passed away. I just don’t see how asking for more info would bother them. If someone I knew died in an accident, I’d want as much information about it as possible. I’d probably be able to get that information elsewhere, but I wouldn’t be upset that others would want details as well. And I can understand that some people wouldn’t want to read more details about how their loved one died, but if that’s how i felt, I’d simply avoid the places where those details are being discussed.
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Re: Capitol Peak Fatality

Post by Bill G »

Capitol has more than its fair share of deaths and accidents. The posters to this forum possess a wealth of information about the Colorado 14ers. Would seem this is the proper forum to discuss. Especially since the section is labelled Climbing Accidents: Info and Analysis.

I've encountered my fair share of deaths and accidents in the colorado mountains and other venues in the western US. Even in books and magazines recounting tales where I narrowly escaped the forces of nature, where others perished, I take interest in others opinions. It's never too soon to discuss. It may save someone in the future.
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Re: Capitol Peak Fatality

Post by Gandalf69 »

JROSKA wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 1:23 am
Gandalf69 wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 7:52 pmUse some critical thinking skills. The route is class 4, a witness saw her dislodge a rock that was loose. How much more do we need to talk about it? This isn't freshman economics in college. For all you people who want to "analyze" everything, how about letting us know about Capitol first hand? Btw, they already made a trend about analyzing what happened, "testing rocks while climbing". Please pay some attention, and be respectful. That should go without saying, but so should having critical thinking.
Gandalf69 wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 7:59 pmIf you have questions about the peak, I'd suggest doing it yourself. I'm sure if you had experience on the route, your questions would be answered about this accident.
So essentially you are the person who says "look it up on google" when someone has a question or needs help with something. That's kind of the "bare minimum" of helping each other out in a community. It seems like we have so much more to offer each other here. You say, discuss it somewhere else, but you don't sound overly thrilled that the other thread "testing rocks while climbing" was started either. I think sometimes when there's an accident, people in this forum just want to talk things through, get different perspectives, there's lots of valuable insight from so many people here & I guess I just question how healthy it is to just shut down the dialogue and say, figure it out yourself on your own damn time. People say, "don't do it in the memorial thread, do it somewhere else" but you guys tend to try to shut down the discussion in those other places as well.

All PCrotty41 did here was basically ask some questions. That's disrespectful? Asking questions? Open discussion is always best. Suppression / avoidance always leads to bigger issues.
I'm basically saying do a class 4 route.
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bigredmachine
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Re: Capitol Peak Fatality

Post by bigredmachine »

pcrotty41 wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 9:26 am Condolences to the family of Sarah.

Do we have any information on what route she was on and on what section of the route was she killed? Was it loose rock from what the initial reports were? Was she climbing alone? Was she wearing a helmet? Can we learn anything from her death? Although tragic we should learn from this and use the forum to warn others of the potential dangers of climbing on Capitol Peak.

This is what we have so far:

The witness was able to provide MRA with the exact location of the woman’s body. It was then estimated that the woman had fallen approximately 900 feet, falling from the route that connects the knife edge to the Capitol Peak summit down to Pierre Lakes Basin.

Plus this account:

My buddy and I were on capitol today. We were one of only 6 climbers to make the summit before they were turning climbers away. We didn’t hear about the accident until we were back off the face and on the ridge (past where the fall occurred). A large number of folks on the ridge saw her fall and were very shaken, as were we. Slow and somber return off the mountain with planes and choppers buzzing. We saw the chopper with the recovery as we neared the TH later in the afternoon as well.

The presser linked above matches our understanding of the situation surrounding the accident except that according to other climbers who witnessed the fall, she might have been slightly off route, trying to get back to the route via some looser/sketchier terrain. Also according to other climbers, this was her 14er finisher.
Okay, so you already have answered most of your own questions, and most all can be found in this thread.
-What route was the climber on: standard
-What section: between knife edge and summit, sounds like closer to summit.
-was the climber off route: sounds like slightly off route, but that section has multiple lines
-was it on loose rock: well it’s Capitol, and it was reported that a rock came loose, you can draw your own conclusion.
-was the climber solo: you already answered this, but yes
-was the climber wearing a helmet: does it matter, it was a significant fall in which a helmet would have been no use. If the climber was or was not wearing a helmet would that help prepare future climbers? No
-the dangers of Capitol have been discussed for many years, there is tons of information to help make you more informed on its dangers, but in general, loose rock, high exposure, challenging route finding, it’s long, it’s tedious, it’s exhausting both physically and mentally, your above 13k for likely 4 hours minimum. If it’s not at the top of the list, it’s one of the top 3 hardest 14ers in Colorado for most people.

I hope this helps answer your questions, and you feel more informed.
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pcrotty41
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Re: Capitol Peak Fatality

Post by pcrotty41 »

I do recall several years back that when there were a more than a couple of fatalities on Capitol Peak due to climbers taking the gully down to Capitol Lake instead of traversing back over the knife edge after attaining the summit this forum was quick to post and warn climbers of the dangers of doing this. Nobody was being insensitive then and not sure how or why this is different? Similar deaths have happened on Kit Carson above, on and below the KC Avenue and again this forum was also quickly used to discuss dangers of the route and where climbers have gone wrong while also being respectful of their deaths.

From what I understand speaking an individual with a source on the flight for life team that the climber was climbing solo on the Northeast Ridge route and had successfully traversed the knife edge and was en route to the summit and was killed somewhere between there and the summit in an area known for having loose rock. Condolences to the family.
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Re: Capitol Peak Fatality

Post by rijaca »

Move along. Nothing new here to see.
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Re: Capitol Peak Fatality

Post by Ginga_Ninja »

Gandalf69 wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 7:59 pm
Candace66 wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 7:07 pm
timisimaginary wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 5:49 pm If a forum section called “Climbing Accidents: Info and Analysis” is the wrong forum for asking for more info to analyze, then what is the right forum?
I was wondering the same thing. The questions that were asked seem to be appropriate to this section of the forum.
If you have questions about the peak, I'd suggest doing it yourself. I'm sure if you had experience on the route, your questions would be answered about this accident.
This is probably the most ignorant thing i’ve ever read on this forum.
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timstich
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Re: Capitol Peak Fatality

Post by timstich »

Look, the fatal accident I was involved in back in 2000 now has a whole Youtube video about it. And that didn't bother me at all, because the guy that created the video found some old photos of my long gone friend Joe and just seeing them again was really nice. This girl Sarah should also be seen and remembered by not only her friends and family, but yes also by those of us who found out about the accident. Just look at her photos, read some of her friend's comments, and keep her in your memory. That's all we leave behind.

That said, stay safe out there.
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Re: Capitol Peak Fatality

Post by Rock-a-Fella »

There may be something I have missed but I am not sure that ANYONE other than the climber knows what happened and thus those seeking to establish where the lines are may be disappointed.

I think timing has a lot to do with “what is appropriate to discuss” and “Where to Discuss it”.

I don’t think anyone knows the antecedent to the fall and thus “conjecture” is what is left. If you don’t know the mountain intimately then you will not even be good at conjecture either.

That part said, since my first Capitol ascent I am of the opinion that too much attention is paid to the “Knife’s Edge” and the the trip around K2 and the final pitch to the summit (std route) is where the Crux is.
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Re: Capitol Peak Fatality

Post by Codyhill1991 »

Rock-a-Fella wrote: Thu Sep 15, 2022 7:51 pm That part said, since my first Capitol ascent I am of the opinion that too much attention is paid to the “Knife’s Edge” and the the trip around K2 and the final pitch to the summit (std route) is where the Crux is.
100% agreed
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