Lake Como Road - Large Rock at 10.1k

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Wentzl
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Re: Lake Como Road - Large Rock at 10.1k

Post by Wentzl »

I didn't read all of that, but Little Bear is harder than Capitol, for anyone who is keeping score.

Pyramid has no business in the discussion, because it is just that easy.

And Mt. Wilson is harder than anything any of you will do on any other peak, including both of the above, so I am not sure why it does not come into the discussion sooner
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Re: Lake Como Road - Large Rock at 10.1k

Post by CaptainSuburbia »

Wentzl wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:51 pm I didn't read all of that, but Little Bear is harder than Capitol, for anyone who is keeping score.

Pyramid has no business in the discussion, because it is just that easy.

And Mt. Wilson is harder than anything any of you will do on any other peak, including both of the above, so I am not sure why it does not come into the discussion sooner
Don't most people summit Mt Wilson by the traverse or South Slope, and not the North Slope that is listed?
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Re: Lake Como Road - Large Rock at 10.1k

Post by greenonion »

Cap and LB are both hard, and for somewhat different reasons. What degree difference of hard among the CO 14ers? Does that really matter?
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Re: Lake Como Road - Large Rock at 10.1k

Post by Ed_Groves »

I was curious about the difficulty, regardless of class, of each of the 14er standard routes. I appreciate the link to the list provided by Salient.

Now, about that rock on Lake Como Road . . . . :wink:
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Re: Lake Como Road - Large Rock at 10.1k

Post by Ptglhs »

CaptainSuburbia wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:08 pm
Wentzl wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:51 pm I didn't read all of that, but Little Bear is harder than Capitol, for anyone who is keeping score.

Pyramid has no business in the discussion, because it is just that easy.

And Mt. Wilson is harder than anything any of you will do on any other peak, including both of the above, so I am not sure why it does not come into the discussion sooner
Don't most people summit Mt Wilson by the traverse or South Slope, and not the North Slope that is listed?
Wilson's north slope is the standard, and the traverse includes the crux move on that route. The South slopes is the easiest. To me Wilson's south slopes were class 2+. I'd rank Mt Wilson just above Blanca.

I'd probably rank them as North Maroon, Sunlight, Little Bear Wilson Peak (not a typo, the little Wilson is much harder than the others in the group, imo), Capitol. Lindsay's ridge is hard too, but it's not the standard. All of this just proves how subjective these rankings are. It's not as though mountains come stamped with a number.

There are so few people who have the experience necessary to more accurately rank these: someone would have to have a lot of familiarity with peak bagging before doing any of these mountains to better rank their challenges. A novice to hiking and scrambling might think the traverse between shavano and tabeguache is rough. A veteran peak bagger would just raise their eyebrows at that. I'd say anyone who had climbed all of these at least 3 times would be in a good position to rank them, and how many people are there in the world who've climbed them that much?

This site has a lot of information, but it's a guide, not an absolute. Discovering which mountain is the hardest for yourself is part of the type 2 fun. :D
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Re: Lake Como Road - Large Rock at 10.1k

Post by CheapCigarMan »

Ptglhs wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 9:02 am
CaptainSuburbia wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:08 pm
Wentzl wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:51 pm I didn't read all of that, but Little Bear is harder than Capitol, for anyone who is keeping score.

Pyramid has no business in the discussion, because it is just that easy.

And Mt. Wilson is harder than anything any of you will do on any other peak, including both of the above, so I am not sure why it does not come into the discussion sooner
Don't most people summit Mt Wilson by the traverse or South Slope, and not the North Slope that is listed?
….All of this just proves how subjective these rankings are. It's not as though mountains come stamped with a number….

This site has a lot of information, but it's a guide, not an absolute. Discovering which mountain is the hardest for yourself is part of the type 2 fun. :D
Subjective indeed. How conditioned were you when you climbed? Weather conditions? Summer rock talus or easier consolidated snow or harder postholing after a snowfall? Solo or with a partner? Cold, hot, windy? So many factors and variables that affect your judgement. Opinions of the peak probably change when climbed again.

But I found it to be a good general guide, better than Roach’s R Point system, for general comparisons. Length of route, elevation gain, Class, exposure.

Most are all Class 2 rock of some sort. Perhaps we could say all the Class 1’s & 2’s are very similar. Then we’d just be putting the other few in grouped buckets of perceived difficulty?
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Re: Lake Como Road - Large Rock at 10.1k

Post by BillMiddlebrook »

CheapCigarMan wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:08 pm Yes that’s the list. And yes people debated the list. For example, you can find threads where some say Snowmass should have been ranked much harder.

Another question I have for Bill is when this and similar topics like this pop up Bill seems to be silent. Perhaps he feels like he’d rather not disclose his secret sauce or feel he doesn’t need to explain the decisions he makes. IDK.
Silence is Golden.

I've been silent on this topic because I didn't see it and haven't had time recently to read many forum threads, especially one about a rock on the Lake Como road.

First, I'm interested in the Como road wash-out area that was mentioned and will be up there next summer and update the site after my visit.

Last, yes, as I've mentioned previously, I removed the user-ranked peak list because it was too subjective. I replaced it with something that is much more helpful to the average 14er peak bagger as he/she progresses through the list. Yes, it first groups the standard routes by Class but then each route is ranked by its overall difficulty/effort (distance, gain, amount of moves specific to the Class rating, etc.) within the Class group. This is different than simply ranking them based on the "hardest" climbing move along the route. Since routes are already in a Class group, I think it's less important to focus solely on the hardest climbing move.

So, let's take the Class 4 group for example... Wentzl is right, that last set of moves on the (current) standard route of Mt. Wilson is more difficult than just about anything along the standard routes of the other Class 4 peaks, with the exception of maybe some slight variations that might be taken on Capitol or Little Bear as you ascend the standard route. It's certainly more difficult than the last move on Sunlight and the rock band section of North Maroon. But when trying to describe the overall difficulty of the route to the average peak bagger, Capitol, Sunlight and LB have to be higher than Mt. Wilson. We already know they all require Class 4 moves to get to the summit so the bagger must expect Class 4 should only tackle the route knowing they have the appropriate skills.

I realize people like a simple, user-ranked list of the 14ers and I think it's interesting to see the rankings but it was just too subjective and not helpful enough to the average visitor.
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Re: Lake Como Road - Large Rock at 10.1k

Post by CheapCigarMan »

BillMiddlebrook wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 6:00 am
CheapCigarMan wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:08 pm Yes that’s the list. And yes people debated the list. For example, you can find threads where some say Snowmass should have been ranked much harder.

Another question I have for Bill is when this and similar topics like this pop up Bill seems to be silent. Perhaps he feels like he’d rather not disclose his secret sauce or feel he doesn’t need to explain the decisions he makes. IDK.
I removed the user-ranked peak list because it was too subjective. I replaced it with something that is much more helpful to the average 14er peak bagger as he/she progresses through the list.

I realize people like a simple, user-ranked list of the 14ers and I think it's interesting to see the rankings but it was just too subjective and not helpful enough to the average visitor.
I think your system is much more useful than Roach's R system. I started out using the R system but found your system more helpful. Because as you mentioned I do think it's more about progressing through the Classes. I was pretty much finishing up when your new system came out but I think I would have enjoyed it perhaps even more.
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Re: Lake Como Road - Large Rock at 10.1k

Post by 719BR »

CheapCigarMan wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 7:19 am
BillMiddlebrook wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 6:00 am
CheapCigarMan wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:08 pm Yes that’s the list. And yes people debated the list. For example, you can find threads where some say Snowmass should have been ranked much harder.

Another question I have for Bill is when this and similar topics like this pop up Bill seems to be silent. Perhaps he feels like he’d rather not disclose his secret sauce or feel he doesn’t need to explain the decisions he makes. IDK.
I removed the user-ranked peak list because it was too subjective. I replaced it with something that is much more helpful to the average 14er peak bagger as he/she progresses through the list.

I realize people like a simple, user-ranked list of the 14ers and I think it's interesting to see the rankings but it was just too subjective and not helpful enough to the average visitor.
I think your system is much more useful than Roach's R system. I started out using the R system but found your system more helpful. Because as you mentioned I do think it's more about progressing through the Classes. I was pretty much finishing up when your new system came out but I think I would have enjoyed it perhaps even more.
i think that's comparing apples to oranges. the r-point system was never intended to be a system dealing purely with technical difficulty. it was more about the overall amount of effort and time required. i have found that whether i'm doing class 1, 2, or 3, the length of time it takes me to finish a route has seen a pretty consistent correlation to his assigned R-value. and on the handful of cents i've done, i've seen the same thing.
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Re: Lake Como Road - Large Rock at 10.1k

Post by Peak200 »

North Maroon , little bear, mt wilson and capital are all
Hard and dangerous in their own ways
Pyramid slightly less hard
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Re: Lake Como Road - Large Rock at 10.1k

Post by bking14ers »

Sorry that I pirated a good post, and spun it off in a different direction. Thanks to all those who commented! Did Capital, but still have to do LB and hike the long walk in so the rock wont be an issue for me.
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Re: Lake Como Road - Large Rock at 10.1k

Post by HikerBox »

stephakett wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:58 am
Skimo95 wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 8:28 pm Lifted jeeps, (stock control arms/struts, etc, w/ 35's and 2-4" lift) have been known to make it to the lake.
curious how to accomplish 2-4" lift with "stock control arms/struts". just shove some hockey pucks in there and call it good? or are you throwing 37s on a dana 30/35?
I dunno but a friend got up there with a 100 series land cruiser on 33's. He said he spent more time stacking rocks than walking would have taken so it is possible. Having seen Jaws I can imagine it took a lot of creativity to keep it rubber side down.

As for OP's question - line choice and traction will help. If you can choose a line that keeps the truck level that will help keep traction. Some traction boards might help too, you can stack rocks under them to even things out and still get grip.
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