And how do you propose to enforce the reservation system without some sort of penalty?
*PSA* Reservation/Shuttles for Quandary Starting 7/30/21
Forum rules
- This is a mountaineering forum, so please keep your posts on-topic. Posts do not all have to be related to the 14ers but should at least be mountaineering-related.
- Personal attacks and confrontational behavior will result in removal from the forum at the discretion of the administrators.
- Do not use this forum to advertise, sell photos or other products or promote a commercial website.
- Posts will be removed at the discretion of the site administrator or moderator(s), including: Troll posts, posts pushing political views or religious beliefs, and posts with the purpose of instigating conflict within the forum.
- Jon Frohlich
- Posts: 2611
- Joined: 10/14/2005
- 14ers: 58
- 13ers: 162 3
- Trip Reports (29)
Re: *PSA* Reservation/Shuttles for Quandary Starting 7/30/21
Personally, I don't see a problem with them taking a cut. Some of the affected roads are county-owned, and are expensive to maintain, especially when folks are pushing the limits when it comes to parking. Also, county/local law enforcement is involved, and it sounds like they also take part in EMS response.
I think overall that we as a community need to be more cognizant of the fact that while being outdoors is great fun and very restorative, if we aren't careful our activities make an outsized impact on the towns and cities that we're visiting on a regular basis. When residents and leaders in those places witness ever-increasing illegal parking, trash, waste, noise, etc, it's only a matter of time before a backlash results, which contributes to permitting and enforcement systems like we see popping up all over the state. And yes, EMS access is a critical part of the issue, too.
Bad behavior has a cost. I'm not a resident of a mountain town or county but I can sympathize with their frustration.
I think overall that we as a community need to be more cognizant of the fact that while being outdoors is great fun and very restorative, if we aren't careful our activities make an outsized impact on the towns and cities that we're visiting on a regular basis. When residents and leaders in those places witness ever-increasing illegal parking, trash, waste, noise, etc, it's only a matter of time before a backlash results, which contributes to permitting and enforcement systems like we see popping up all over the state. And yes, EMS access is a critical part of the issue, too.
Bad behavior has a cost. I'm not a resident of a mountain town or county but I can sympathize with their frustration.
-
- Posts: 3540
- Joined: 6/17/2009
- 14ers: 34
- 13ers: 12
- Trip Reports (3)
-
- Posts: 781
- Joined: 6/9/2010
- 14ers: 56
- 13ers: 218
- Trip Reports (3)
- Contact:
Re: *PSA* Reservation/Shuttles for Quandary Starting 7/30/21
I was just noting that a for-profit company will be collecting said penalty, which makes it a bit more like a speed trap than a speed limit based on safety.Jon Frohlich wrote: ↑Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:06 pmAnd how do you propose to enforce the reservation system without some sort of penalty?
Re: *PSA* Reservation/Shuttles for Quandary Starting 7/30/21
I went by the Quandary Trailhead while hiking up McCullough Gulch last Sunday. The Quandary trailheads were full and people were parked along the road to McCullough Gulch and even all the way at the McCullough Gulch Trailhead just to hike Quandary. More than that, there were a lot of cars parked right on the shoulder of the highway for quite a distance. I don't think I've ever seen a busier trailhead than that anywhere.
I'm old, slow and fat. Unfortunately, those are my good qualities.
- Alpinefroggy
- Posts: 151
- Joined: 5/11/2020
- 14ers: 29 2
- 13ers: 8
- Trip Reports (3)
Re: *PSA* Reservation/Shuttles for Quandary Starting 7/30/21
I actually see this as a good thing.
Controlling access to popular areas is necessary when they start getting overcrowded. I don't have an issue whatsoever when this stuff happens.
I feel like it is a much better peak to control access to over the bells. Many people here are interested in what is in the bells area but once many do quandary in the summer once they have no need to do it again. So many other great options in the area to climb.
Any of the centennials, north star etc.
Controlling access to popular areas is necessary when they start getting overcrowded. I don't have an issue whatsoever when this stuff happens.
I feel like it is a much better peak to control access to over the bells. Many people here are interested in what is in the bells area but once many do quandary in the summer once they have no need to do it again. So many other great options in the area to climb.
Any of the centennials, north star etc.
Re: *PSA* Reservation/Shuttles for Quandary Starting 7/30/21
Generally agreed, at least once they reach Quandary/RMNP levels of activity. One thing I do wonder about though is this: once access limits are established at all of the popular areas, where will the excess crowds end up? I assume previously "unpopular" areas are going to start seeing more use. Mixed feelings about that part.Alpinefroggy wrote: ↑Thu Jul 15, 2021 8:09 am Controlling access to popular areas is necessary when they start getting overcrowded. I don't have an issue whatsoever when this stuff happens.
Re: *PSA* Reservation/Shuttles for Quandary Starting 7/30/21
Visitation to the Maroon Lake/Bells area might reach half a million people this year, almost all of them in summer and early fall. That's a lot for a small mountain lake.Alpinefroggy wrote: ↑Thu Jul 15, 2021 8:09 am I feel like it is a much better peak to control access to over the bells.
I'm old, slow and fat. Unfortunately, those are my good qualities.
- Jon Frohlich
- Posts: 2611
- Joined: 10/14/2005
- 14ers: 58
- 13ers: 162 3
- Trip Reports (29)
Re: *PSA* Reservation/Shuttles for Quandary Starting 7/30/21
As long as OutThereColorado keeps their mouth shut. They recently seem to be doing better about not writing articles about every 'secret' spot though.ekalina wrote: ↑Thu Jul 15, 2021 8:32 amGenerally agreed, at least once they reach Quandary/RMNP levels of activity. One thing I do wonder about though is this: once access limits are established at all of the popular areas, where will the excess crowds end up? I assume previously "unpopular" areas are going to start seeing more use. Mixed feelings about that part.Alpinefroggy wrote: ↑Thu Jul 15, 2021 8:09 am Controlling access to popular areas is necessary when they start getting overcrowded. I don't have an issue whatsoever when this stuff happens.
- lordhelmut
- Posts: 2310
- Joined: 2/24/2006
- 14ers: 50 21 5
- 13ers: 300 60 1
- Trip Reports (73)
- Contact:
Re: *PSA* Reservation/Shuttles for Quandary Starting 7/30/21
I've thought about that as well and came to this general conclusion. If someone had plans to hike a 6 mile/3000 foot 14er with a highway from the trailhead to the summit, odds are their plan B is probably not going to be a 13-14 mile, 5000 foot schwack through the Gores. My guess/hope is they'll just say f**k it and join a co-ed volleyball league in Wash Park.ekalina wrote: ↑Thu Jul 15, 2021 8:32 amGenerally agreed, at least once they reach Quandary/RMNP levels of activity. One thing I do wonder about though is this: once access limits are established at all of the popular areas, where will the excess crowds end up? I assume previously "unpopular" areas are going to start seeing more use. Mixed feelings about that part.Alpinefroggy wrote: ↑Thu Jul 15, 2021 8:09 am Controlling access to popular areas is necessary when they start getting overcrowded. I don't have an issue whatsoever when this stuff happens.
- 12ersRule
- Posts: 2268
- Joined: 6/18/2007
- 14ers: 58
- 13ers: 157
- Trip Reports (4)
Re: *PSA* Reservation/Shuttles for Quandary Starting 7/30/21
Haha, or a pickleball league, whatever that is.lordhelmut wrote: ↑Thu Jul 15, 2021 12:13 pm I've thought about that as well and came to this general conclusion. If someone had plans to hike a 6 mile/3000 foot 14er with a highway from the trailhead to the summit, odds are their plan B is probably not going to be a 13-14 mile, 5000 foot schwack through the Gores. My guess/hope is they'll just say f**k it and join a co-ed volleyball league in Wash Park.
- lordhelmut
- Posts: 2310
- Joined: 2/24/2006
- 14ers: 50 21 5
- 13ers: 300 60 1
- Trip Reports (73)
- Contact:
Re: *PSA* Reservation/Shuttles for Quandary Starting 7/30/21
Based on my observations, it seems to be a sport for people who suck at both tennis and ping pong. But whatever keeps people off I-70, I'll support.12ersRule wrote: ↑Thu Jul 15, 2021 12:16 pmHaha, or a pickleball league, whatever that is.lordhelmut wrote: ↑Thu Jul 15, 2021 12:13 pm I've thought about that as well and came to this general conclusion. If someone had plans to hike a 6 mile/3000 foot 14er with a highway from the trailhead to the summit, odds are their plan B is probably not going to be a 13-14 mile, 5000 foot schwack through the Gores. My guess/hope is they'll just say f**k it and join a co-ed volleyball league in Wash Park.