Unleashed dogs in wilderness

Dogs, dogs and even some cats
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Oldskool70
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Re: Unleashed dogs in wilderness

Post by Oldskool70 »

The only time I have been bitten (twice now) by a dog has been by ones that were actually on leashes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And my 12 year old son- bitten by a dog on a leash also on a trail !!!!!!!!!

Lightning, mountain lions, twisted ankle, etc. All are not as high on my worry list as people's pets. And just like the for-mentioned hazards, peoples pooches will never go away.

No turning back on my opinion at this point. I have two pepper sprays (one for my wife & one for me) ready... & whatever else I get a hold on to protect myself & my family.

The only way to teach people the error of their ways is through their pain or their pocket book. Stand-by . :evil:
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Re: Unleashed dogs in wilderness

Post by gspup »

Oldskool70 wrote:The only time I have been bitten (twice now) by a dog has been by ones that were actually on leashes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And my 12 year old son- bitten by a dog on a leash also on a trail !!!!!!!!!
It's really amazing that so many people bring their aggressive dogs into crowded public areas. That is the main reason I leash my dog when I see other dogs leashed in off-leash areas, sometimes it's a sign that dog is aggressive. If they have a yellow ribbon on their collar/leash you should be extra careful, it's the signal in the dog community.
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Re: Unleashed dogs in wilderness

Post by Jon Frohlich »

oldschool wrote: Awesome response....clear, concise, to the point.
And completely answered my question as well.

I have a house full of rescued pets who are all spayed and neutered. There is no reason at all not to do so. My wife and I have fostered dogs for rescue organizations that require spaying and neutering. There are too many unwanted pets in shelters already being euthanized every day. We don't need more.

I don't care if it's not the opinion you guys like. I don't support intact pets. Period. I think it's irresponsible.
Last edited by Jon Frohlich on Thu Aug 11, 2016 8:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Unleashed dogs in wilderness

Post by Stevo »

I am usually of the opinion that dogs can be fine off leash but three weeks ago I witnessed an interesting situation with a friend's german short hair. His dog has always responded extremely well to voice commands, has an electronic collar, and has spent two full time 6 week stints getting trained by a professional hunting guide (though the dog absolutely does not and could not hunt).

We were camping in Gould where there are small cabins and your neighbors are like 20' away. It was just after dark and we were all sitting at the picnic table while the dog was cruising around off leash. We had two neighbors and one of the was walking back from the shower and the dog ran towards him in a playful manner and turned right before he reached our neighbor. I have known the dog for a long time and know he is not aggressive and recognized this was just playful behavior. Our camping neighbor saw it coming and was a just slightly surprised but made some playful motions back. Then about 10 minutes later our other neighbor came back and the dog did the same thing. However, this time the other neighbor completely froze up out of fear. It was still the playful dog that we knew but that poor guy was completely scared sh*itless. After about 30 seconds he puts his hand over his chest and walks away.

I've known the dog for years and know that he would never hurt anyone but that situation provided me a new outlook of the whole on leash/off leash situation. Our neighbor had no clue what that dog was doing. He just saw a dark dog lunging towards him in the dark out of nowhere. Looking back my friend should have leashed him after the first guy but I think he just thought the dog was playing and no big deal. It made it worse for me when I found out the second guy had some sort of pre-existing heart condition. Watching the fear that this guy experienced was horrible and I wouldn't want to see that on anyone ever again.
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Re: Unleashed dogs in wilderness

Post by Oldskool70 »

gspup wrote:
Oldskool70 wrote:The only time I have been bitten (twice now) by a dog has been by ones that were actually on leashes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And my 12 year old son- bitten by a dog on a leash also on a trail !!!!!!!!!
It's really amazing that so many people bring their aggressive dogs into crowded public areas. That is the main reason I leash my dog when I see other dogs leashed in off-leash areas, sometimes it's a sign that dog is aggressive. If they have a yellow ribbon on their collar/leash you should be extra careful, it's the signal in the dog community.
I did not know that. Thanks for the tip!!!
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Re: Unleashed dogs in wilderness

Post by Scott P »

Richard Derkase wrote:
Jesse M wrote: I will never be made to feel like that again.

This event took place on segment 12 in the Collegiate Peaks Wilderness near the ridge of Waverly Mountain at 11,500+, after hiking 19 miles, it was getting late, and I still had 2 miles to camp at Pine Creek.
I'm curious...

Why/how the hell are you taking pictures of a dog in the process of attacking you? Don't you think a trekking pole up side his head would have been more appropriate?

Or a good blast of bear spray in the face. That'll do the trick.

Positioning yourself for social media seems misplaced, certainly given the circumstances.

Dick
If at all possible (and if I could do so without putting myself in danger), I would take a photo of the dog. That way it could be identified. Plus, if it did bite me, I could show which dog it was. I could also prove that it was attacking me if I had to injury or kill it.
Last edited by Scott P on Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Unleashed dogs in wilderness

Post by oldschoolczar »

I'd like to remind people not to pet stranger's dogs as you walk by them on the trail. You don't just reach out and touch an unknown little child's or a cute baby's face every time you walk by them, so please don't touch my dog. Don't let her try to get to know you by sniffing your hand... she doesn't need to know or like you. She's a dog.

It's best to just ignore an unknown dog. Let the dog meet you on it's terms.

My dog will completely ignore every other dog and person as she follows closely behind me off leash, never getting more than 10ft from me. It's like other people/animals don't exist at all. However, if you try to pet my dog as you pass by, she'll get scared because she doesn't know you and she's not going to like it. This will happen whether she's on or off a leash. So just don't f*$# with people's dogs.
Last edited by oldschoolczar on Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:58 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Unleashed dogs in wilderness

Post by oldschoolczar »

Richard Derkase wrote:
Scott P wrote:and if I could do so without putting myself in danger
If, and only if.

I love dogs but a loose aggressive one gets no free pass. Boom! It'll think twice next time, as will it's lame-ass owner.

Dick
Wow! You sound so tough and dangerous. Maybe you should be on a leash?
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Re: Unleashed dogs in wilderness

Post by Scott P »

oldschoolczar wrote:
Richard Derkase wrote:
Scott P wrote:and if I could do so without putting myself in danger
If, and only if.

I love dogs but a loose aggressive one gets no free pass. Boom! It'll think twice next time, as will it's lame-ass owner.

Dick
Wow! You sound so tough and dangerous. Maybe you should be on a leash?
In his defense, he did say a loose and aggressive dog, not any dog.

If a dog was going to or was attacking me or someone else in the group, I would certainly defend myself or others against the attack.
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Re: Unleashed dogs in wilderness

Post by oldschoolczar »

Scott P wrote: In his defense, he did say a loose and aggressive dog, not any dog.

If a dog was going to or was attacking me or someone else in the group, I would certainly defend myself or others against the attack.
Well that was a reasonable way to put it, but you certainly don't sound quite as tough!
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Re: Unleashed dogs in wilderness

Post by oldschoolczar »

Richard Derkase wrote:
oldschoolczar wrote:Wow! You sound so tough and dangerous.
Have you even been bitten badly by a dog? It does a good bit of damage that usually cannot be stitched closed because if you do it will likely infect. So, they irrigate the hell out of it (read flush out the holes in you) and send you packing with antibiotics and your open wound that may heal properly but will leave a good scar even if it does. And, if you can't catch the dog and it gets away, they give you rabies vaccinations to go with your pleasant wound. Nice.

If an off leash dog becomes aggressive towards me, I can assure you I will be dangerous to said pooch.

Dick
Yes, I have. Took a severe bite to my face from a German Shepherd...

Of course I was 10 years old so I wasn't able to open a can of whoopass on the dog and the lame-ass owners like you would've.
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Re: Unleashed dogs in wilderness

Post by SurfNTurf »

It's an emotional subject. Like most such debates, neither side is wrong. It's a matter of perspective, and mutual respect and common sense go a long way. Everyone digging in and taking a hard line -- "all dogs should be leashed at all times" or "I never leash my dog ever" -- is the reason these threads always devolve into passive-aggressive Internet pissing matches.

I'm a dog owner and prefer to have her off-leash whenever possible. She's OK on a lead, but it's much more enjoyable for both of us for me to maintain my normal pace while she sniffs flowers, runs back and forth, etc. She's always stayed within 20-30 feet of me (as herding breeds are wont to do), but I've also invested hundreds of dollars and more than a year in constant training. She used to bark at strangers. She used to bolt up to other dogs and try to play. She used to chase wildlife and would only listen to recall commands when there wasn't anything more interesting to do. I put in the effort to correct these behaviors, and now she's more respectful on a trail than 99 percent of humans.

Even with my legitimately trained dog, I still keep a leash connected to her pack and bundled in one of the pockets or make her wear a Ruffwear Quickdraw. This makes it easy to call her to me and physically restrain her whenever we approach a person, dog or wild animal. I realize I don't own the backcountry and that her presence could be annoying or even threatening to some trail users, and I try to be cognizant of that. She's free to roam again once we're a safe distance past. If we're on a crowded trail where this would be a never-ending nuisance, she simply stays leashed. I mostly avoid such areas with her.
Quick-access pack leash.
Quick-access pack leash.
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Ruffwear Quickdraw
Ruffwear Quickdraw
13423919_10101579421773306_7445149715436939454_n.jpg (165.21 KiB) Viewed 3251 times
Do I ignore leash laws a lot of the time? You bet. I also make an effort to visit areas, such as the Holy Cross Wilderness and the Weminuche Wilderness, where only voice restraint is necessary. These are blanket laws catering to the masses because the authorities don't have the resources to actually police the problem. It's easier to make leashes mandatory and punish good dog owners than it is to develop and maintain a more reasonable system, like the Voice and Sight Tags in Boulder. I can sleep at night knowing I do everything I can to ensure my dog doesn't harass other trail users or leave any more trace than a human visitor. That's good enough for me.

I'm sure I'll got torched for saying anything negative about CFI on this forum, but my experiences with trail crews has been largely negative. Even when the rules are being obeyed, they come across as preachy -- especially about dogs. A recent example occurred on Huron Peak. I was in a large group (yes, less than 15...) that was moving slowly and stopped to take a break right below where the work area. A few parties wanted past, so we moved to the edge of the trail. One of the CFI crew members yelled from 300 feet above, "GET BACK ON THE TRAIL. GET BACK ON THE TRAIL. GET BACK ON THE TRAIL." The same guy said as we approached him later, "Come on, guys. This is what we're here for. It's not that hard to just stay on the trail." He was a total ass about it, especially considering my party consisted largely of first-timers who didn't know any better, but I couldn't really argue with his point. I kept my mouth shut and moved on. The kicker was that about half the trail crew was eating lunch sitting in the tundra 10 feet off the path. ](*,)

On the way down, one of the other crew members patronizingly thanked me for having my dog on a leash. Cool, fine, whatever. Then she asked if I'd been packing out my dog's poop and launched into an unsolicited spiel about how damaging dog feces is to the alpine environment. (Half the reason my dog wears a backpack is so she can carry her own bagged poop.) It took considerable restraint, but I was able to just roll my eyes and walk away. Most of them are volunteers, but if they're already being taught what to lecture hikers about, a little customer-service training wouldn't hurt.
Last edited by SurfNTurf on Thu Aug 11, 2016 10:53 am, edited 5 times in total.
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