It’s all in the words we use. Agree that pushing down into the mountain, carefully, and after thumping, is better than pulling in any direction. Hopefully folks understand the intention of what is intended, but I agree that “pulling” is not the best term.andrewhamilton wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 7:02 am If you spend a lot of time in the mountains no matter what you do you will knock down loose rocks, or jump out of the way of loose rocks. Sometimes you will avoid injury or worse just by pure luck. So bad things can happen to literally anyone on any terrain. We all know that…
Anyway here are a few things i go with:
1) on a terrible route on the west side of middle palisade in California, called the Farquhar Death Chute, a horrendously dangerous route, i realized that many rocks appeared to be part of the mountain - you could tell just by looking that they werent going to move (with exceptions of course!). Some rocks were clearly just laying on the mountain. And some were not obvious. So when in doubt go for the ones that are part the mountain, not the ones laying on the mountain if you have a choice.
2) there has been talk off pulling down not out, However I’ll often be able to turn a loose handhold/Boulder into a great handhold by pushing it down into the mountain, not pulling it at all.
3). When i was a kid, my step dad taught me to run through rock fields by assuming everything you touch was loose, but by the time you step on a rock you need to be on your way to the next one so you plan two to three steps ahead.
4) then there is also the basic 3 point of contact rule. That is when scrambling in threatening terrain just move one foot or hand at a time so if a hold gives way you still have 3 points of contact to the mountain. This is absolutely critical when in exposed terrain.
5) you should consciously/unconsciously be aware when you are in life threatening terrain and be extra aware of every move you take. Because in some places stepping on a rock and slipping doesn’t kill you and in other places it will.
6) watch out when things are wet!
Testing Rocks while Climbing
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greenonion
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Re: Testing Rocks while Climbing
Re: Testing Rocks while Climbing
Something I learned in climbing is distributing weight across multiple points of contact. Always test your holds from a safe spot(bang, kick, tap, pull, etc) and know it is almost never advisable to have 100% of your weight on 1 specific hold. Using your main 4 points of contact and distributing your weight helps reduce your chance of falling if 1 of your holds fail. Just my 2 cents as I didn't see much about testing from a safe spot and weight distribution.
Ahh my bad saw Andrew brought up the 3 point. Good call out
Ahh my bad saw Andrew brought up the 3 point. Good call out
Re: Testing Rocks while Climbing
^ There we go.
From watching a toddler figure out on his own how to distribute his weight to stay in balance when climbing and to not grab things that aren't attached to the obstacle, I think we learn 99% of what we need to not fall off of mountains by the age of 2.
Whether you push or pull and in what direction depends on a bunch of factors and is probably not something you can learn from reading a forum.
Banging on rocks sounds like a good way to get carpal tunnel. Sometimes loose rocks make noise and sometimes they don't. Sometimes everything is loose. The "points of contact" (i.e. weight distribution) rule is always in play, even on the sidewalk. If the terrain is steep enough that you can't make upward progress by spreading out your weight and not needing to test anything, then from a solid stance you can grab a potential hold and pull--at the same angle as you would weight it--with whatever force is needed to confirm its sufficiency for the move you're about to make. Sometimes you still use a loose rock (mainly for balance) but apply less force or at a different angle than is required to dislodge it.
But I have to believe that a person who climbs all N-1 14ers has learned enough about loose rock to safely get up Capitol, off-route (the concept that a mountain can only be safely scaled by established routes is obviously ridiculous, particularly in non-technical terrain) or otherwise, and so with regard to the accident that spawned this thread, there must have been extenuating circumstances that we'll never know, and I doubt a life could have been spared simply by testing rocks.
From watching a toddler figure out on his own how to distribute his weight to stay in balance when climbing and to not grab things that aren't attached to the obstacle, I think we learn 99% of what we need to not fall off of mountains by the age of 2.
Whether you push or pull and in what direction depends on a bunch of factors and is probably not something you can learn from reading a forum.
Banging on rocks sounds like a good way to get carpal tunnel. Sometimes loose rocks make noise and sometimes they don't. Sometimes everything is loose. The "points of contact" (i.e. weight distribution) rule is always in play, even on the sidewalk. If the terrain is steep enough that you can't make upward progress by spreading out your weight and not needing to test anything, then from a solid stance you can grab a potential hold and pull--at the same angle as you would weight it--with whatever force is needed to confirm its sufficiency for the move you're about to make. Sometimes you still use a loose rock (mainly for balance) but apply less force or at a different angle than is required to dislodge it.
But I have to believe that a person who climbs all N-1 14ers has learned enough about loose rock to safely get up Capitol, off-route (the concept that a mountain can only be safely scaled by established routes is obviously ridiculous, particularly in non-technical terrain) or otherwise, and so with regard to the accident that spawned this thread, there must have been extenuating circumstances that we'll never know, and I doubt a life could have been spared simply by testing rocks.
