The end of the In-Reach?
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- JuneauTheHusky
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Re: The end of the In-Reach?
I wonder what battery life will be like in cold temps relative to my In-Reach.
- headsizeburrito
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Re: The end of the In-Reach?
An inreach is certainly more rugged than a phone with regard to impact, battery, etc. That said, last winter I had my inreach give me a cold notice and shut down, which I was a little surprised by. I later looked at the documentation from Garmin and the operating temperature is listed as "From -20° to 60°C (from -4° to 140°F)" page 18:
https://www8.garmin.com/manuals/webhelp ... _EN-US.pdf
I didn't think it was that cold, but wind was probably a factor. Guess in those temps you should keep your inreach in a pack or on your body to keep it warmer.
In any case, it's interesting that there will be some kind of satellite feature on the new iphone and the tech will certainly improve with future iterations, but I don't think the inreach will be going away for a while due to factors already mentioned by others.
https://www8.garmin.com/manuals/webhelp ... _EN-US.pdf
I didn't think it was that cold, but wind was probably a factor. Guess in those temps you should keep your inreach in a pack or on your body to keep it warmer.
In any case, it's interesting that there will be some kind of satellite feature on the new iphone and the tech will certainly improve with future iterations, but I don't think the inreach will be going away for a while due to factors already mentioned by others.
Re: The end of the In-Reach?
Google is quite the tool, I highly recommend you try it.JuneauTheHusky wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 9:43 pm I wonder what battery life will be like in cold temps relative to my In-Reach.
“Phone iPhone 14 Plus
Video Playback Up to 26 hours
Video Streaming Up to 20 hours
Audio Playback Up to 100 hours”
- JtheChemE
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Re: The end of the In-Reach?
I still have my DeLorme from years ago, which of course was bought by Garmin. It's served me faithfully all over the world, in terrible conditions, and it is very much a known and well vetted peace of my kit. The value of DeLorme/in-reach isn't just for emergencies, it provides a way for me to reliably check in with family at home regarding ETA, delays, change of plans, etc. The breadcrumb feature is nice for my wife, as she likes to check in on progress, without having to message for an update.
The in-reach is a purpose built of kit, wheras as another said smartphones try to do many things in mediocore fashion and are delicate as far as tech in wilderness goes. My DeLorme just works. I can type messages manually on it, use preset messages (80% of my use case), link it to my cell if I choose for typing messages, and the battery will far outlast even the best cell phone batteries as it has only two purposes beyond an SOS for me: breadcrumbs and messaging.
Like Bill M. said, redundancy is key. I have DeLorme, cell phone, and radio (haven't often used the radios). Each of these can function independently of one another, and for safety systems redundancy is key. I prefer the larger format of the older delorme vs the new in-reach mini, because if I don't need to pair a phone and can use it efficiently with gloves. Additionally, while I am sure this apple feature has been tested plenty in development, it's still not been used extensively in the backcountry and for anything serious I'd rather the safety system be built on a very mature technology.
As they say with photography "the best camera is the one you have with you", so too can be said that the best piece of emergency communication is the one you have with you. If cell phones can provide this to the masses, I don't see that as a bad thing but I do not think this technology as it currently stands is an equivalent. However for a large percentage of the hiking-centric 14ers community use case, it could be a viable non-equivalent alternative.
So to answer the question of the topic: no I do not think that this current deployment of cell phone bases SOS is going to take In-Reach off the market. There are too many people that use other features that the In-Reach provides (and apple does not), and there are still other people (like myself) that prefer a purpose built device. Will it take away market share? For sure. There are many people whose needs would be satisfied by the cell-based SOS.
The in-reach is a purpose built of kit, wheras as another said smartphones try to do many things in mediocore fashion and are delicate as far as tech in wilderness goes. My DeLorme just works. I can type messages manually on it, use preset messages (80% of my use case), link it to my cell if I choose for typing messages, and the battery will far outlast even the best cell phone batteries as it has only two purposes beyond an SOS for me: breadcrumbs and messaging.
Like Bill M. said, redundancy is key. I have DeLorme, cell phone, and radio (haven't often used the radios). Each of these can function independently of one another, and for safety systems redundancy is key. I prefer the larger format of the older delorme vs the new in-reach mini, because if I don't need to pair a phone and can use it efficiently with gloves. Additionally, while I am sure this apple feature has been tested plenty in development, it's still not been used extensively in the backcountry and for anything serious I'd rather the safety system be built on a very mature technology.
As they say with photography "the best camera is the one you have with you", so too can be said that the best piece of emergency communication is the one you have with you. If cell phones can provide this to the masses, I don't see that as a bad thing but I do not think this technology as it currently stands is an equivalent. However for a large percentage of the hiking-centric 14ers community use case, it could be a viable non-equivalent alternative.
So to answer the question of the topic: no I do not think that this current deployment of cell phone bases SOS is going to take In-Reach off the market. There are too many people that use other features that the In-Reach provides (and apple does not), and there are still other people (like myself) that prefer a purpose built device. Will it take away market share? For sure. There are many people whose needs would be satisfied by the cell-based SOS.
- JuneauTheHusky
- Posts: 5
- Joined: 4/24/2019
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Re: The end of the In-Reach?
With that amount of sarcasm I would have thought you would at least read the comment. Those are not the cold temp numbers which was the question you quoted.Skimo95 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 8:38 amGoogle is quite the tool, I highly recommend you try it.JuneauTheHusky wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 9:43 pm I wonder what battery life will be like in cold temps relative to my In-Reach.
“Phone iPhone 14 Plus
Video Playback Up to 26 hours
Video Streaming Up to 20 hours
Audio Playback Up to 100 hours”
Also, as an engineer that has specifically worked in that arena for a bit, were you to find listed cold temp numbers, they would be vastly inflated and inaccurate.
Doesn't take much to be respectful.
Re: The end of the In-Reach?
I’m sorry if I hurt any feelings. I figured it was common sense that a cell phone battery would not fair well compared to inreach. Especially for someone who has experienced inreach battery on multi-day trips. I found a Garmin earlier this year, which was returned to the original owner. The battery was still good after several months of non use! Here’s another solid read via @GoogleJuneauTheHusky wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 7:28 pmWith that amount of sarcasm I would have thought you would at least read the comment. Those are not the cold temp numbers which was the question you quoted.Skimo95 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 8:38 amGoogle is quite the tool, I highly recommend you try it.JuneauTheHusky wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 9:43 pm I wonder what battery life will be like in cold temps relative to my In-Reach.
“Phone iPhone 14 Plus
Video Playback Up to 26 hours
Video Streaming Up to 20 hours
Audio Playback Up to 100 hours”
Also, as an engineer that has specifically worked in that arena for a bit, were you to find listed cold temp numbers, they would be vastly inflated and inaccurate.
Doesn't take much to be respectful.
https://backpackinglight.com/apple-ipho ... n-inreach/
“How long does Garmin inReach battery last?
Battery Information
Battery Life Mode
Up to 75 hr. 10-minute tracking send interval and 1-second log interval
Up to 100 hr. Default mode with 10-minute tracking send interval and 1-minute log interval
Up to 30 days Extended tracking mode with 30-minute tracking send interval
Up to 3 yr. Turned off”
- Bombay2Boulder
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Re: The end of the In-Reach?
This is coming out for Android too now-
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/01 ... han-apple/
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/01 ... han-apple/
- nyker
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Re: The end of the In-Reach?
interesting, wondering if this service would be free/included in normal data plans or come at a premium.
Also, a main concern I'd have in relying on this, is just the fragility of a smartphone if dropped on a rock, etc and battery life, without resorting to needing to carry extra and heavier battery packs.
Also, a main concern I'd have in relying on this, is just the fragility of a smartphone if dropped on a rock, etc and battery life, without resorting to needing to carry extra and heavier battery packs.
Re: The end of the In-Reach?
Thanks.Bombay2Boulder wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 11:20 am https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/01 ... han-apple/
This from the article:
"Texts to 911 (or your local equivalent) will be free, without any kind of plan, just like how cellular works (this is a law)."
Free satellite texts to 911? So if your phone has the hw/fw and an app that supports it, in a real emergency scenario you could text 911 with your info, coordinates, emergency contact, etc.? What am I missing?
On paper that does sound like the end of the In-Reach.
Also, millions of people who never had a satellite transceiver in their phones, suddenly will have one.
- Bombay2Boulder
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Re: The end of the In-Reach?
I think eventually way down the line this will make the satellite devices obsolete for average recreation purposes. But right now, the antenna in the sat devices gives it the edge over anything a cellphone might offer in backcountry conditions, especially in bad cover. But technology is evolving fast, was very surprised to see the Android announcement this soon. It will be very Interesting if this forces garmin to change it's subscription rates. That might happen sooner if I were to guess. Who knows over time it might also makes the hardware itself cheaper. Very exciting times in this space.Boggy B wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 3:19 pmThanks.Bombay2Boulder wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 11:20 am https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/01 ... han-apple/
This from the article:
"Texts to 911 (or your local equivalent) will be free, without any kind of plan, just like how cellular works (this is a law)."
Free satellite texts to 911? So if your phone has the hw/fw and an app that supports it, in a real emergency scenario you could text 911 with your info, coordinates, emergency contact, etc.? What am I missing?
On paper that does sound like the end of the In-Reach.
Also, millions of people who never had a satellite transceiver in their phones, suddenly will have one.
- nyker
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Re: The end of the In-Reach?
If that's the case then phones need "only" to develop a better antenna and battery and then the standalone beacons may be in jeopardy.
I wonder if the sat access will be by default or you need to have it turned on like wifi, or a hotspot setting both of which drain a battery faster in some settings.
I wonder if the sat access will be by default or you need to have it turned on like wifi, or a hotspot setting both of which drain a battery faster in some settings.
Re: The end of the In-Reach?
The battery doesn’t matter in cold conditions. I’m not sure how often you climb below 0 degrees, but phones don’t like to be exposed for long. If you lose service the iPhone will automatically go to SOS mode. I have a 13gen model which updated latest to acquire SOS. My own personal opinion is, if you continue to climb summits through winter, a Garmin should still be an additional requirement for the next year or two. Hopefully technology can continue to impress and be able to resist cold temperatures one day. Extra battery packs are light weight nowadays, and should take care of your battery concerns.