carrying water in winter

[DestroyMySweater]

So winter is still a ways away ... but I'm interested in how people carry and pack their water on winter dayhikes. I've tried different things with varying degrees of success. I thought about doing a poll, but I can't quite figure it out and there are a ton of options:

Types of Bottles:
-Do you use Nalgenes, Nalgenes with insulated covers, insulated bottles/thermoses, plastic disposable bottles with insulated parkas? (I've decided not to use bladders & hoses, but I know some of you do that, too).

Where:
-Do you attach to a shoulder strap, carry on the waist strap, pack side pockets, lashed to the back, or inside the backpack?

Combinations:
-It seems like the combos are endless, each with a different advantage. I like not having to take my pack off to drink, so that limits me to strapping a bottle (usually using a sleeve/parka) to a shoulder strap or waist strap (I can't quite reach my side pocket on my backpack without taking it off). But I don't like the feeling of it on the shoulder strap, especially if I'm doing any (mild) scrambling. Putting bottles on the side or lashed to the back of the pack are equal; it means taking off the pack. Putting bottles inside the backpack is the best for insulation, but it means taking off the pack and anything lashed to it (often either snowshoes or ice axe), which is a hassle.

Of course, where I put bottles dictates something of what she should be in. Naked nalgenes don't do well on the outside of the pack, so then I need an insulated cover. Insulated bottles and thermoses do ok on the outside but are heavy and the ones I have are much smaller(16 oz and 18oz; I also borrowed a 32 oz one which was ridiculously heavy), so it means I have to replenish them more often. (I'm usually at 3-5 liters depending on the day, so that means a lot more weight in bottles). I have a friend who just uses disposable Gatorade bottles, even in the winter, as long as they are either in an insulated carrier or inside the pack, but I'm nervous to do this. He says the Gatorade keeps it from freezing, though.

What's your winter setup to maximize efficiency of drinking (time, hassle), minimize freezing, and also minimize weight?

[CaptainSuburbia]

I put my water bottle inside a sock in my backpack. Never had an issue with it freezing.

[justiner]

Lots of things you can do as you've noted. The most reliable I've found is to start with something like hot (boiling) water (make tea, in other words) and put that in a very insulated double-walled/vacuum bottle.

For a more lighter weight option, which I find works well when sourcing water in the field even: use a nalgene, fill up your water. Put a thick wool sock over the nalgene, then another wool sock. In between, put some chemical hand warmers. Wrap that all up in a puffy, or even a bag made of a mylar-like material - some chemical warmers come in such bags, even. A potato chip bag could even work. Store that upside down in your pack. I do similar things with any electronics I have, so they're stored at a temp that's not too close to freezing. For my phone, I put it in a pocket near my chest in a sock with a handwarmer in it, and wrap that in a ziplock bag. Same with my inReach.

If you absolutely need a water supply, bring a stove.

[the_hare]

I use a bladder/hose wrapped with cheap reflective bubble insulation but before I set that up I just pulled two medium-thickness calf-length socks over my Nalgenes and clipped them to the bottom of my backpack straps. Didn't bother warming up the water or adding anything to it beforehand. Coldest I hiked with that setup was about 10 degrees F, no problems freezing. Saw some of the bottle parkas you can buy are like $60, I think there's way cheaper and feasible options one can easily make.

[DestroyMySweater]

I put my water bottle inside a sock in my backpack. Never had an issue with it freezing.

All Nalgenes, then, with wool socks around each? (I usually take 3-5 liters, so it would be 3-5 nalgenes).

I do hate having to take my pack off and open it up each time for water. Maybe it's psychological, but I feel like I drink less water when I do that.

[DestroyMySweater]

Lots of things you can do as you've noted. The most reliable I've found is to start with something like hot (boiling) water (make tea, in other words) and put that in a very insulated double-walled/vacuum bottle.

Yeah, I've done the hot beverage (coffee, tea, even just boiled water) in an insulated bottle (I have a Yeti and a Hydroflask). It works fine, and I will normally bring at least one of them for that. I also feel free to keep them outside the pack for easier access. But the disadvantage I've found is that these are both smaller, so I end up having to "replentish" from other bottles more frequently. I've taken a 32oz Hydroflask once and attached it to my hip strap, but it was so heavy and hard it kept bumping up against me. Pretty frustrating. I've put the insulated bottles on side pockets. One thing I've noticed with them is that ice forms around the cap. The liquid inside stays warm, and I can usually bust the ice up, but, again, a bit of a hassle.

In between, put some chemical hand warmers. Wrap that all up in a puffy, or even a bag made of a mylar-like material - some chemical warmers come in such bags, even. A potato chip bag could even work. Store that upside down in your pack. I do similar things with any electronics I have, so they're stored at a temp that's not too close to freezing. For my phone, I put it in a pocket near my chest in a sock with a handwarmer in it, and wrap that in a ziplock bag. Same with my inReach.

This is interesting. I know someone who actually sticks the sticky side of a handwarmer on the back of his phone case and puts it in a pocket. He says it makes a noticeable different on how quickly the battery drains. I'm always worried that I'd fry my phone somewhere. But I could see this working on a bottle, especially with the sticky side of a handwarmer.

If you absolutely need a water supply, bring a stove.

Yep, I do this. I rarely use it because it takes so much time to melt snow. But maybe the issue is getting a stove upgrade! Regardless, I prefer to make this a "in emergency" plan. Winter days are so short that I try to maximize time and stay on the move.

[dwoodward13]

I keep one Nalgene in the pack. Usually I just wrap it in a spare jacket, although I also have put it in a wool sock before too. I've never had any issues with freezing. I keep the other Nalgene in an Outdoor Research parka thats attached to a piece of webbing built into my shoulder strap. It doesn't seem to sway a lot on just walking type terrain. If it becomes more scrambly, I will take the bottle out and put it in the pack because it will swing more. Never had an issue with freezing in the parka even if I forget to zip it all the way (zipper can be sticky). I've messed with putting it on the waist belt or on the side of the pack and all of them sway a lot which annoys me. The shoulder is the best spot I've found for me.

[cheechaco]

If I'm on a day hike I always use my hydration pack with the insulated tube. If I'm ski touring I keep a collapsible water bottle in my chest pocket of my ski bib with a small nalgene in my pack. I really pre-hydrate when I tour as I drink less with this setup being less convenient.

[supranihilest]

I only carry a maximum of 2 liters on any given winter climb. That's certainly risky in case of an emergency and I don't necessarily recommend it but it does reduce the amount of weight I'm carrying especially if things do freeze, which happens occasionally - no use carrying extra ice around, right?

In the morning I'll boil my water before bottling it in Nalgenes, put the bottles in Outdoor Research bottle parkas (I have the older versions but assume the newer ones work fine), and carry one on the outside of my pack for easy access and the other wrapped in a jacket inside my pack until I finish the first. In the majority of cases this keeps my water liquid all day, I'll finish the first bottle as it starts to get cold, and the second is often warm still when I get to it.

Having tried bladders and insulated hoses they typically work OK if the duration of your time out is short. If I'm doing 12+ hour days, which isn't uncommon, that's far above the time it takes for things to freeze, particularly the bite valve. Anyone who's ever chomped down on a frozen bite valve and tried to get the little bits of ice out of it knows it sucks. That and you can't to my knowledge put boiling water into a bladder, so you're already starting off behind the eight ball.

[DestroyMySweater]

Saw some of the bottle parkas you can buy are like $60, I think there's way cheaper and feasible options one can easily make.

They are crazy expensive. I got an old OR parka for $15 on ebay. I also bought the Nalgene one ($20), but it's straps are much less sturdy, so I returned that one.

I keep one Nalgene in the pack. Usually I just wrap it in a spare jacket, although I also have put it in a wool sock before too. I've never had any issues with freezing. I keep the other Nalgene in an Outdoor Research parka thats attached to a piece of webbing built into my shoulder strap. It doesn't seem to sway a lot on just walking type terrain. If it becomes more scrambly, I will take the bottle out and put it in the pack because it will swing more. Never had an issue with freezing in the parka even if I forget to zip it all the way (zipper can be sticky). I've messed with putting it on the waist belt or on the side of the pack and all of them sway a lot which annoys me. The shoulder is the best spot I've found for me.

First, I've also found the OR parka to have a very "sticky" zipper. It can be tough to use with a glove on and basically impossible with one hand. I agree with you that clipping it on the hip belt means more swaying, but somehow I haven't gotten past the awkwardness of having it on my shoulder strap. It doesn't help that the OR strap is quite wide (2 inches, I think), and my D ring is much smaller, so it means I have to clip a larger carabiner to the D ring in order to get the strap through. Maybe there's an easier solution there. Again, I do like the idea of trying to have it "on the front" of me so I can get to it without taking off the pack.

[supranihilest]

I agree with you that clipping it on the hip belt means more swaying, but somehow I haven't gotten past the awkwardness of having it on my shoulder strap. It doesn't help that the OR strap is quite wide (2 inches, I think), and my D ring is much smaller, so it means I have to clip a larger carabiner to the D ring in order to get the strap through. Maybe there's an easier solution there.

The winter pack I use most often has bottle-sized elastic mesh pockets where most packs have smaller or shorter pockets, usually right behind the waist straps. The pockets on mine are large enough to fit bottles in parkas, though things get difficult if my pack is stuffed with camping gear and there's not enough flexibility or stretch anymore. Finding a pack with such pockets or sewing your own on could be a solution. That said, usually when my pack's that full I'm not doing anything where the flopping will matter, and inversely when I'm doing things where flopping bottles could be problematic my pack is usually a lot less full.

[DestroyMySweater]

I only carry a maximum of 2 liters on any given winter climb. That's certainly risky in case of an emergency and I don't necessarily recommend it but it does reduce the amount of weight I'm carrying especially if things do freeze, which happens occasionally - no use carrying extra ice around, right?

Wow, I don't know if I could do with only 2 liters, and I have some long days, too. (By the way, I love your trip reports, so I know you do some amazing stuff!). Do you just pre-hydrate a bunch? I feel like I need to drink, not because of replacing sweat (I try to follow the winter adage of "never sweat"), but to help with the effects of altitude. If I don't drink much, even in water, I feel it.

carry one on the outside of my pack for easy access

Out of curiosity, do you strap the parka + bottle the front of your pack (shoulder or hip belt) or to the side or back of your pack?