carrying water in winter

Info on gear, conditioning, and preparation for hiking/climbing.
Forum rules
  • This is a mountaineering forum, so please keep your posts on-topic. Posts do not all have to be related to the 14ers but should at least be mountaineering-related.
  • Personal attacks and confrontational behavior will result in removal from the forum at the discretion of the administrators.
  • Do not use this forum to advertise, sell photos or other products or promote a commercial website.
  • Posts will be removed at the discretion of the site administrator or moderator(s), including: Troll posts, posts pushing political views or religious beliefs, and posts with the purpose of instigating conflict within the forum.
For more details, please see the Terms of Use you agreed to when joining the forum.
User avatar
Scott P
Posts: 9438
Joined: 5/4/2005
14ers: 58  16 
13ers: 50 13
Trip Reports (16)
 
Contact:

Re: carrying water in winter

Post by Scott P »

DestroyMySweater wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 12:14 pmTypes of Bottles:
-Do you use Nalgenes, Nalgenes with insulated covers, insulated bottles/thermoses, plastic disposable bottles with insulated parkas? (I've decided not to use bladders & hoses, but I know some of you do that, too).
It depends on the weather. I learned the hard way that an insulated Nalgene full of hot water and wrapped in a coat will still freeze on really cold days. On a more average day they can be adequate.

Thermoses will never freeze, though you still have to be careful filling them and screwing on the lid since if it's wet it can still freeze and make them hard to open.

I carry them in my pack.
I'm old, slow and fat. Unfortunately, those are my good qualities.
User avatar
Scott P
Posts: 9438
Joined: 5/4/2005
14ers: 58  16 
13ers: 50 13
Trip Reports (16)
 
Contact:

Re: carrying water in winter

Post by Scott P »

supranihilest wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 1:09 pm I only carry a maximum of 2 liters on any given winter climb.
I believe you, but everyone is different. I definitely carry and drink a lot more than that in a solid day of hiking or climbing.
I'm old, slow and fat. Unfortunately, those are my good qualities.
User avatar
Robbie Crouse
Posts: 104
Joined: 7/26/2004
14ers: 33  5 
13ers: 22 7
Trip Reports (0)
 

Re: carrying water in winter

Post by Robbie Crouse »

I don't "feel" like drinking water in the winter, at least not like a summer day when I'm sweating, but the dry air takes a lot of moisture out of your lungs. Having something over your mouth and nose can help moisture loss, I think.
User avatar
supranihilest
Posts: 719
Joined: 6/29/2015
14ers: 58  42 
13ers: 709 1 8
Trip Reports (112)
 
Contact:

Re: carrying water in winter

Post by supranihilest »

DestroyMySweater wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 1:16 pm
supranihilest wrote: I only carry a maximum of 2 liters on any given winter climb. That's certainly risky in case of an emergency and I don't necessarily recommend it but it does reduce the amount of weight I'm carrying especially if things do freeze, which happens occasionally - no use carrying extra ice around, right?

Wow, I don't know if I could do with only 2 liters, and I have some long days, too. (By the way, I love your trip reports, so I know you do some amazing stuff!). Do you just pre-hydrate a bunch? I feel like I need to drink, not because of replacing sweat (I try to follow the winter adage of "never sweat"), but to help with the effects of altitude. If I don't drink much, even in water, I feel it.
In my case it helps that I'm small - 5' 3" and about 130 pounds - so I don't need as much. I typically sip throughout the day instead of taking big glugs and strictly ration my water because I know I'm riding that line between having enough for success but not enough for contingencies. Most people will need more. In such cases the obvious solution is just to start with more, but one could also carry a stove, pot, and gas. Having had to melt snow on several climbs (Rainier, Chicago Basin, Aconcagua, etc.) it's a miserable proposition especially if you're in trouble above treeline, your hands are frozen, you're hypothermic, you're in bad weather or it's approaching, you name it, there's a gazillion contingencies and potential emergency situations. Again, I don't recommend carrying so little, but I've found that it works for me. Obligatory "dancing the razor's edge is dangerous" warning.
DestroyMySweater wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 1:16 pm Out of curiosity, do you strap the parka + bottle the front of your pack (shoulder or hip belt) or to the side or back of your pack?
Depends on the pack. The one I mentioned earlier has large pockets. The other that I'll use if I'm on a multi-day winter backpack has a much smaller elastic pocket and a buckle cinch strap above it that I'll loop through the velcro belt loop on the parka. This keeps it from falling off if it comes out of the pocket but then it starts flopping. I have a third pack I rarely use where keeping the bottles on the outside isn't an option, so I'll just stuff 'em inside.
Scott P wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 1:23 pmyou still have to be careful filling them and screwing on the lid since if it's wet it can still freeze and make them hard to open.
This is the problem I encounter most often - frozen threads that lock the cap on so tight it's sometimes impossible to get off without melting the ice.
Scott P wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 1:25 pm
supranihilest wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 1:09 pm I only carry a maximum of 2 liters on any given winter climb.
I believe you, but everyone is different. I definitely carry and drink a lot more than that in a solid day of hiking or climbing.
2L in winter and 3L in summer are what I carry. Personal choice, of course, and far below what most people will want, need, or recommend.
Robbie Crouse wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 1:28 pm I don't "feel" like drinking water in the winter, at least not like a summer day when I'm sweating, but the dry air takes a lot of moisture out of your lungs. Having something over your mouth and nose can help moisture loss, I think.
Yup. It's a balance between being able to breathe freely (without something covering your mouth) and retaining additional moisture (with something covering your mouth). Sucking cold air through a warm, moist buff (or balaclava, I suppose) helps prevent the dry winter air from dehydrating you more.
User avatar
Scott P
Posts: 9438
Joined: 5/4/2005
14ers: 58  16 
13ers: 50 13
Trip Reports (16)
 
Contact:

Re: carrying water in winter

Post by Scott P »

Robbie Crouse wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 1:28 pm I don't "feel" like drinking water in the winter, at least not like a summer day when I'm sweating, but the dry air takes a lot of moisture out of your lungs. Having something over your mouth and nose can help moisture loss, I think.
Yes and being hydrated also helps prevent frostbite.
I'm old, slow and fat. Unfortunately, those are my good qualities.
DestroyMySweater
Posts: 26
Joined: 5/24/2021
Trip Reports (0)
 

Re: carrying water in winter

Post by DestroyMySweater »

Man, am I only who doesn't like taking my pack to drink? I guess I got used to that with a hydration system in the warmer months. Do I just need a psychological readjustment about it? I'm a slow hiker but I try to plan ambitious days so I feel like I need to keep moving and taking the pack off just gives me too much of a mental "break" (especially if the pack is heavy).

Here's another minor quibble with taking the pack off, though: if you have to put it down in the snow now you have extra snow everywhere when you put it back on. I generally avoid this (when possible) by taking it off when their is bare rock.
User avatar
Scott P
Posts: 9438
Joined: 5/4/2005
14ers: 58  16 
13ers: 50 13
Trip Reports (16)
 
Contact:

Re: carrying water in winter

Post by Scott P »

supranihilest wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 1:29 pmIn my case it helps that I'm small - 5' 3" and about 130 pounds - so I don't need as much.
Yes, that helps explain it and how everyone is different.

I weigh around 272. More than double the weight = more than double the water required. For a long day, I take 4-6 liters unless I take a filter (which usually isn't in winter).
I'm old, slow and fat. Unfortunately, those are my good qualities.
User avatar
randalmartin
Posts: 1490
Joined: 5/4/2008
14ers: 58  1 
13ers: 48 2
Trip Reports (13)
 

Re: carrying water in winter

Post by randalmartin »

+1 on pre hydration. It starts with making sure I am well hydrated before going to bed the night before. Then will drink a full liter of water on the drive to the TH. The combination of those two things allows me to get away with only 2 liters for up to a 6-7 hr day. One of those liters is usually hot chocolate/tea. Amazing to be able to drink something warm when you are cold.

Edit: I am 5' 9" 165lbs and so definitely size effects hydration requirements.
User avatar
angry
Posts: 662
Joined: 10/5/2017
14ers: 58  45 
13ers: 231 8
Trip Reports (0)
 

Re: carrying water in winter

Post by angry »

supranihilest wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 1:09 pm I only carry a maximum of 2 liters on any given winter climb.
I only carry 2 liters as well and usually don’t drink it all. I was gifted an OR bottle parka 5 years ago and have never had an issue opening the zipper with my gloves on either.
User avatar
Robbie Crouse
Posts: 104
Joined: 7/26/2004
14ers: 33  5 
13ers: 22 7
Trip Reports (0)
 

Re: carrying water in winter

Post by Robbie Crouse »

[quote="DestroyMySweater"]
thermoses do ok on the outside but are heavy and the ones I have are much smaller(16 oz and 18oz; I also borrowed a 32 oz one which was ridiculously heavy), so it means I have to replenish them more often.
[/quote]

I do agree that this is an annoying feature of going the thermoses / insulated bottles route: because of the insulation they don't have as much volume per the space they take up (a liter thermos is huge), so if you go the thermos route you end up having to have more of them, = more weight. It's kind of a vicious cycle.
User avatar
justiner
Posts: 4396
Joined: 8/28/2010
14ers: 58  8 
13ers: 138
Trip Reports (40)
 
Contact:

Re: carrying water in winter

Post by justiner »

I drink sensationally less in the winter rather than summer. On a 19 mile run/hike/thing 3 weeks ago, I went through 9 liters of water in about 8 hours. If you abstain from alcohol the day before and drink up before starting the trip, you can try to get away with less water than you think. A challenge with Winter is to not sweat through your layers, so try dressing a little a less warm - especially below treeline. Keep your insulated layer close at hand.
User avatar
CaptainSuburbia
Posts: 1101
Joined: 10/7/2017
14ers: 58  35 
13ers: 125 9
Trip Reports (44)
 

Re: carrying water in winter

Post by CaptainSuburbia »

DestroyMySweater wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 12:36 pm
CaptainSuburbia wrote: I put my water bottle inside a sock in my backpack. Never had an issue with it freezing.
All Nalgenes, then, with wool socks around each? (I usually take 3-5 liters, so it would be 3-5 nalgenes).

I do hate having to take my pack off and open it up each time for water. Maybe it's psychological, but I feel like I drink less water when I do that.
Yes, socks around each and put them on the inside of pack so they're up against your back. It is a pain taking your pack off for a drink but at least they won't freeze. I generally drink very little on winter hikes though, and don't take much more than a liter. 2 at the most. So much easier to climb without all that extra weight. I drink up before I start and dress so I don't sweat. I once did a winter Little Bear with just an 8 ounce can of coke having forgotten my water. I would not recommend this though.
Some day our kids will study Clash lyrics in school.
Nothing drives people crazy like people drive people crazy.
Save Challenger Point
Post Reply