Mountain Respect

[MichaelNRiv]

Hey! I'm Rivkah, and my husband's name is Michael. We are from Kearney, Ne. We love Colorado and respect the mountains to the best of our ability. We have l climbed about 30 14er/s in the last few years, including Pyramid, Capitol, and Longs Peak 3 times. Has anyone noticed an extreme lack of respect for the mountains, trails, and Leave no Trace standards?

Does anyone else struggle with wanting to yell at people who step off the trail on to the delicate tundra, trample all over the rocks and create erosion, leave their crap on the mountain? How do you all deal with this in a positive way?

-MnR

[Rollie Free]

While leaving trash behind is a bad thing I don't know what you mean by erosion if someone tramples all over rocks. The worst examples of leaving traces and erosion by far are the trails themselves. I was coming down off of a 14er last year and, God bless'em, some trail workers were burying stones in the trail. In order not to disturb them and having to jump over a ditch they had dug I went around a tree next to the trail. You would think I was about to pave the mountain entirely the way one of them got excited. He asked me to please stay on the trail (instead of a whole 4 feet away) and asked me to hop over the ravine, which I did but was a bit taken aback, it wasn't a gimme.

I respect it all but I find some of this extremism to be misguided. If you are that extreme you should be working on keeping people out altogether. Just because someone decides there is going to be a trail there doesn't make it any less destructive. I drive on a paved road xx miles to a flat parking lot of gravel, signs, and bathrooms, up a path that will be there for several lifetimes and the big sin is I take a wayward step or two, or touch a rock? C'mon.

And away we go.

[gonefishing05]

it does bother me for sure, but i have to remind myself that it is more commonly a lack of understanding than a lack of respect. not everyone understands how their actions affect the environment. i remember one of the first peaks i did, i felt the trail switched back too much and it made more sense for me to cut right across the tundra toward my destination. i had no idea how fragile the plants are up there. when i was young, i didnt have the mentality that my actions alone wouldnt ruin the mountains, but if everyone acted the way i was, it would ruin them. i didnt have a mentor to teach me these things. these are things ive learned over time.

while there are definitely jerks out there who know they are doing wrong but dont care, i think most of it is due to lack of experience/education. try to be helpful and educate vs angry and confrontational. you might even turn some of the jerks!

[TravelingMatt]

How many tanks of gas have you used driving back and forth from Nebraska? How much trash did you generate? What appliances and TVs and other power-drawing devices did you leave plugged in while you were away? How much more did you wear down the roads going back to the trailheads by driving on them? How many pairs of hiking boots, pants and other gear have you gone through in all your hiking?

Does anyone else struggle with wanting to yell at people who step off the trail on to the delicate tundra, trample all over the rocks and create erosion, leave their crap on the mountain?

No, because I mostly stay the hell off 14ers nowadays. On lesser-hiked peaks it's inevitable you'll knock down rocks, leave footprints in mud and so on.

[Jon Frohlich]

I'm going to come at this from a different direction. I rarely climb peaks that have trails anymore. And if they do it's only for a portion of the hike.

If there's a trail available use it and stay on it. That's easy enough. However, if you're going to climb 12ers and 13ers in this state you're going to be off trail much of the time. There's no way around it. LNT doesn't specifically stay to stay on trail but it does say travel and camp on durable surfaces. In practice you do the best you can and on the lower peaks there isn't much traffic so a few hikers here and there isn't a big deal.

I made a choice a long time ago to climb things that didn't have trails. Other people might not make that same choice.

[Matt]

Does anyone else struggle with wanting to yell at people who step off the trail on to the delicate tundra, trample all over the rocks and create erosion, leave their crap on the mountain? How do you all deal with this in a positive way?

Not me. Who yells at others in the mountains except in an emergency or high wind?
After two experiences like Rollie Free describes with obnoxious trail crews, I do what I think is right and let others be unless there's obvious danger to themselves, others, or me.
Righteous fundamentalism wins few converts.
Following with Jon and Trav Matt, once you get off 14ers, trails are a luxury. Should peaks without trails be off-limits until CFI gets up there and builds them?

[MichaelNRiv]

How many tanks of gas have you used driving back and forth from Nebraska? How much trash did you generate? What appliances and TVs and other power-drawing devices did you leave plugged in while you were away? How much more did you wear down the roads going back to the trailheads by driving on them? How many pairs of hiking boots, pants and other gear have you gone through in all your hiking?

Does anyone else struggle with wanting to yell at people who step off the trail on to the delicate tundra, trample all over the rocks and create erosion, leave their crap on the mountain?

No, because I mostly stay the hell off 14ers nowadays. On lesser-hiked peaks it's inevitable you'll knock down rocks, leave footprints in mud and so on.

We all live in the system where we are forced to use energy, gas and other things inappropriately. Right? Should I also step off the trail, trample on delicate tundra, and treat the land like crap? Maybe I should go shoot a few grizzlies while I'm at it.
I was simply asking if anyone had tips on how to treat our wild lands with respect amongst many individuals who don't care or are ignorant. Not an argument. Just a simple question.

MnR

[MichaelNRiv]

While leaving trash behind is a bad thing I don't know what you mean by erosion if someone tramples all over rocks. The worst examples of leaving traces and erosion by far are the trails themselves. I was coming down off of a 14er last year and, God bless'em, some trail workers were burying stones in the trail. In order not to disturb them and having to jump over a ditch they had dug I went around a tree next to the trail. You would think I was about to pave the mountain entirely the way one of them got excited. He asked me to please stay on the trail (instead of a whole 4 feet away) and asked me to hop over the ravine, which I did but was a bit taken aback, it wasn't a gimme.

I respect it all but I find some of this extremism to be misguided. If you are that extreme you should be working on keeping people out altogether. Just because someone decides there is going to be a trail there doesn't make it any less destructive. I drive on a paved road xx miles to a flat parking lot of gravel, signs, and bathrooms, up a path that will be there for several lifetimes and the big sin is I take a wayward step or two, or touch a rock? C'mon.

And away we go.

Check out the upper portions of poor Mount Sherman. Thats called erosion. Individuals chose to step off the trail because they are just rocks right? Nope. Actually, the rocks are eroded and there are about 50+ trails with now unstable rock everywhere.
Just a thought though. Maybe I hadn't worded it correctly. Sorry.

MnR

[rpdawes]

Does anyone else struggle with wanting to yell at people who step off the trail on to the delicate tundra, trample all over the rocks and create erosion, leave their crap on the mountain? How do you all deal with this in a positive way?

-MnR

If you want to deal with those jerks in a positive way, you can print many copies of a pamphlet or leaflet relating your concerns and give them to those jerks without having to yell at them. You cannot play a role of a police officer to warn them off.If you do, those jerks most likely would tell you to mind your own business.

If you are so concerned about the delicate tundra, you would request the authorities to declare most 13ers off limits to hikers since they do not have existing trails. So please use your common sense!

[2toes]

I understand your frustration! I just try to do the best I can and get proactive positive information out there. I nicely asked some people to not cross cut the other day and they got back on trail and we had a good talk. They had no idea. I am definitely a catch more flies with honey type of person. Education is my thing. As far as trash, I pick up everything I see, although my limit is 2 full dog poop bags (I don't have a dog, they are not mine). I've recently decided to attach an old rock climbing chalk bag to the side of my pack that I can tuck trash in since sometimes I don't have pockets and it can fall out of pockets vs. shutting the bag. I think it's a fun challenge to see how much trash I can pick up. I celebrate the good days when there isn't much! You pretty quickly get a feel if someone is open to hearing you. If they aren't, then it's not my battle to take them on.

[highpilgrim]

GET OFF MY DAMN MOUNTAIN, YOU BRUSH POPPING HORNSWAGLER. WE DON'T NEED YOUR ILK AROUND HERE.!!!

If you SCREAM this, while wearing a visible sidearm, the offender will likely move away from you.

[Sean Nunn]

I understand the concern about environmental destruction but I believe some people on here overplay it. There are a handful of 14ers that are eroded due to abundant traffic. The rest are in pretty good shape (thanks in part to CFI work). And the other 2000 or so mountains in the state of CO (Bartlett and a few others being exceptions) are in nearly pristine condition. So I think overall erosion due to human traffic is not a big issue.

Trash is always a problem, and always will be, but again, honestly, I have never seen what I would call a huge trash problem on any mountain except perhaps at a trailhead or 2. Yes I pick up an occasional wrapper or empty water bottle, but nothing like you see at the edges of roads in the cities and suburbs. I tell all the people that go hiking with me (they are younger than me so hopefully they listen) to leave no trash on any mountain. Education takes care of the problem for most people. A few are willingly ignorant/apathetic; that has always been the case and always will be.