CaptainSuburbia wrote: ↑Tue May 04, 2021 9:09 am
The current exchange rate of one human per year is acceptable to me. Had these 3 bears been allowed to live I do not believe the exchange rate would have increased.
So one human per three bears then? While I certainly hope that most people place more value on human lives than you do, this is a matter of personal opinion so you are not "wrong."
I'm pretty sure there's a lot more than 3 black bears killed by humans per year. One human per year is a pretty low number. Are you advocating killing all black bears to get that number to zero?
#savetheblackbear
CaptainSuburbia wrote: ↑Tue May 04, 2021 9:09 am
The current exchange rate of one human per year is acceptable to me. Had these 3 bears been allowed to live I do not believe the exchange rate would have increased.
So one human per three bears then? While I certainly hope that most people place more value on human lives than you do, this is a matter of personal opinion so you are not "wrong."
I'm pretty sure there's a lot more than 3 black bears killed by humans per year. One human per year is a pretty low number. Are you advocating killing all black bears to get that number to zero?
#savetheblackbear
You have misunderstood the question. Regardless, to answer your question, no I am not advocating for killing all black bears in order to save a few humans.
CaptainSuburbia wrote: ↑Mon May 03, 2021 1:05 pm
Putting those bears down makes less and no sense.
Once bears find human meat delicious, they would want more of it. The same applies to mountain lions. The wildlife managers know the best!
That is my understanding from my reading as well. If a bear learns it can obtain food in a particular way, it will tend to continue that behavior. Bears that are fed by humans learn to seek handouts from humans to the point of even attacking for food, hence the common statement from wildlife biologists, "A fed bear is a dead bear." Likewise, the wildlife management community makes the assumption that a bear which has tasted human meat will be more likely to eat it the next time around. It is possible animals such as those in this thread may never choose to eat human meat again, but wildlife management errs on the side of protecting human lives. That doesn't mean anyone likes killing these magnificent animals in these situations. It is just the value society places on human lives compared to other animals, though in other ways it can be argued that our balance is skewed too much toward humans. But one can imagine the uproar if someone's child was eaten by a bear and then the bear was allowed to continue living and it attacked another child.
Viewing wildlife is part of the joy of being out in wild places. I have been in close proximity to black bears in the Appalachians and in Glacier National Park, four of which were within 40 yards or less. One was only about 10 yards away, but so far, so good. Some of my favorite places are in the Canadian Rockies and in Glacier where there are plenty of Grizzlies. I do not want to ever get that close to a Grizzly and I prefer keeping my distance with black bears as well. I carry a highly rated bear spray, but have not had to use it and hope I never have to. Considering the range of bear spray, retaining the composure to accurately direct bear spray at a fast closing charging grizzly is something I don't like to think about.
prairiechicken wrote: ↑Mon May 03, 2021 8:53 pm
You guys are both silly.
What is really silly, and unfortunate, is that thanks to incidents like this many people who are easily led by the sensational aspect of it will become convinced that black bears are as carnivorous as all the pit bulls, alligators, dingoes, mountain lions and bobcats out there stalking them on their hike. NOT!
Animals generally just want to be left alone, and will do most anything to avoid human contact.
I'm sorry the woman lost her life, that the bears DID need to be put down, and that so many people are now going to be heebiejeebing around in the woods convinced they are next on the menu.
Agree on all points. IME, the groups that are the LEAST paranoid are the ones that are outside all the time, like through hikers and avid peak baggers.
@CaptainSub, while I share your affinity for wild animals, they had to put this one down. IDK the stats, but bears routinely get euthanized for less egregious behavior, namely for becoming campground regulars.
Re: Bear Attack
Posted: Tue May 04, 2021 1:09 pm
by timisimaginary
Bale wrote: ↑Tue May 04, 2021 11:38 amIME, the groups that are the LEAST paranoid are the ones that are outside all the time, like through hikers and avid peak baggers.
but are they less paranoid because they're outside all the time, or are they outside all the time because they're less paranoid?
Bale wrote: ↑Tue May 04, 2021 11:38 amIME, the groups that are the LEAST paranoid are the ones that are outside all the time, like through hikers and avid peak baggers.
but are they less paranoid because they're outside all the time, or are they outside all the time because they're less paranoid?
Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean there aren't actually animals out there trying to eat you.
Bale wrote: ↑Tue May 04, 2021 11:38 amIME, the groups that are the LEAST paranoid are the ones that are outside all the time, like through hikers and avid peak baggers.
but are they less paranoid because they're outside all the time, or are they outside all the time because they're less paranoid?
Good question! Those of us who had parents tell us,”don’t worry, the bear is more scared of you than you of it”, have had a long, happy life in the outdoors. Like Pilgrim said, every animal attack nowadays is sensationalized so much that once-a-year deer hunters are convinced that behind every tree is a bear or mountain lion lying in wait to eat them. Folks just don’t look at the numbers. You are more likely to die from a bee sting or lightning strike, WAY more likely to drown, and your chances of dying in a car wreck on the way to the TH are like 10000x higher than an animal attack. Obviously don’t wear a Lady Gaga style meat suit when you go walking around Kodiak;)
Re: Bear Attack
Posted: Tue May 04, 2021 2:20 pm
by XterraRob
Wild animals should be allowed to cull the wildly undisciplined growth of the human population in Colorado. How else can nature fight back against Californication?
Re: Bear Attack
Posted: Tue May 04, 2021 2:26 pm
by Bale
I’d like to add, R.I.P. to this victim. This news is always sad and scary, but keep in mind that the bear-human interaction studies and education over the last 50 years have been overwhelmingly successful. We have millions upon millions of outdoor user days in bear and lion habitat with very few casualties.
A good read along these lines dealing with the old Yellowstone Grizzly dump feeding, the Craighead bros, bear box implementation, etc, is Engineering Eden by Jordan Fisher Smith.
Re: Bear Attack
Posted: Tue May 04, 2021 3:33 pm
by CaptainSuburbia
Re: Bear Attack
Posted: Tue May 04, 2021 4:15 pm
by docinco
XterraRob wrote: ↑Tue May 04, 2021 2:20 pm
Wild animals should be allowed to cull the wildly undisciplined growth of the human population in Colorado. How else can nature fight back against Californication?
covid, but it only works on those who deny science. sounds pretty good to me.
XterraRob wrote: ↑Tue May 04, 2021 2:20 pm
Wild animals should be allowed to cull the wildly undisciplined growth of the human population in Colorado. How else can nature fight back against Californication?
covid, but it only works on those who deny science. sounds pretty good to me.