Global warming shrinks mountains

[La Mula]

I'm looking forward to the day when women's beach volleyball will be taking place on the approach hikes.

[rob runkle]

I was wondering what road this was going down, and I was pleasantly surprised by what you said at the end. You're absolutely right--it is a scientific issue, and it's too bad that it has become polarized by those who want change and those who want to keep their heads buried in the sand.

Just because not everybody is drinking the Global Warming Koolaid doesn't mean that they are "sticking their heads in the sand." You are making a generalization just because people don't agree with your point of view.

If I were a generalizing type person I might say that all New Englanders are Rich, snobby, uptight WASPs.

[CorduroyCalves]

I was wondering what road this was going down, and I was pleasantly surprised by what you said at the end. You're absolutely right--it is a scientific issue, and it's too bad that it has become polarized by those who want change and those who want to keep their heads buried in the sand.

Just because not everybody is drinking the Global Warming Koolaid doesn't mean that they are "sticking their heads in the sand." You are making a generalization just because people don't agree with your point of view.

If I were a generalizing type person I might say that all New Englanders are Rich, snobby, uptight WASPs.

You're right. Actually, I'm not concerned so much for the global warming aspect as I am for simply conserving what we have. The earth is a finite space. Consequently, we have a finite amount of natural resources. No magic faucet to turn on when we need more.

[rob runkle]

You're right. Actually, I'm not concerned so much for the global warming aspect as I am for simply conserving what we have. The earth is a finite space. Consequently, we have a finite amount of natural resources. No magic faucet to turn on when we need more.

This we can agree on. I was brought up to clean my plate, not litter, abhore waste. I don't really think that the "faucet" will run out, at least in our life times, but I still don't see the value in waste and sloppiness. To me it is a matter or "pride".

[George James]

Does global warming exist? I dunno. Heck, seems like nobody can really say for sure, one way or the other. So the bottom line (for me anyway) is this: Regardless of whether Global Warming exists or not, we should all be trying harder to reduce our output of pollution in any form, whether it's Greenhouse gases, or Funhouse gases, or White House gases, or whatever! Who cares what house it's coming from! :D

Besides the fact that we may help to reduce a "warming effect" on the planet, there are so many other good reasons for all of us, indiviudals and large companies alike, to be making efforts to change our consumption habits and move to clean(er) energy resources more and more all the time. I'm sure that all of you can think of plenty of good reasons just off the top of your head!

So while it's an interesting discussion I think that it's somewhat of a moot point. I mean, sure it's worth debating and exploring academically, but I don't think we need to know whether global warming really exists or not to realize that polluting less (probably a lot less) is in our best interests, in many more ways than one...

...but wait a minute!

According to climate change models, Colorado should receive more precipitation (and more snow) as the climate warms.

Oh Yeah? Well why didn't someone tell me that sooner! In that case, HOORAY FOR GLOBAL WARMING!!! GLOBAL WARMING IS MY HERO!!! THREE CHEERS FOR GLOBAL WARMING!!!
I'm going out tonight and finding a bunch of tires to burn! Then I'm gonna go get myself a T-Shirt! Move over Hansel!


...Oh, and to actually address the original post...

If the height of a mountain is measured from "seal level" and global warming is causing the seas to rise then blah blah blah...

I guess that's an interesting thing to think about for a moment or two, but who the heck cares man? The total elevation of a mountain is just a number.

Cheers!

[sundog54]

I'm honored by all of you on taking part on this thread. I started this thread with a tongue-in-check comment.

So I must put my two cents in. I don't think we have enough information to know whether or not global warming exits.

Thanks for starting it bayouboy. I notice you haven't responded to my offer to those who posted before me, that is, a dollar to anyone who can honestly say they've read the reports of the IPCC. Should I infer that
a) your silence on the matter means you have NOT read the reports (which are the largest work on the subject), but that
b) you still think that "we" don't have enough information to know whether or not global warming exists?

In short, if you haven't READ the biggest works on the subject, how is it possible for you to be informed about whether or not "we" have enough information? Maybe you meant to say "...I don't have enough information"?

Or maybe you just didn't see my post...possible...but then, reading all the posts would be another way to get more information about the subject, hmmm?

If you read the reports before I posted my offer, I'll give you a dollar.

Here's another way to look at the issue: take an evidence-based approach. What sort of event or evidence would convince you? Like, say, the ice disappearing completely from the Arctic Ocean during the three summer months? The glaciers melting completely away to nothing in Glacier National Park? What would alter your impartiality?

For me, I'd be convinced that global warming had ceased or reversed (note: I did not say "is not real") if either of the two above-mentioned processes reversed their current trends for five years running.

[covfrrider]

In the link I posted earlier (which I doubt anyone followed and read) there were some comments from Paolo B. DePetrillo, MD. He wrote up an analysis of weather data which was kind of interesting. Link here: http://www.well.com/user/pdeep/pages/wa ... 1019.shtml

This graph is from his analysis. Even to an untrained eye like mine, a pattern emerges...



Falls in line with what I've always believed about the weather... it's cyclical, and our samples are far too small to draw any incontrovertible conclusions.

[pw]

For me, I'd be convinced that global warming had ceased or reversed (note: I did not say "is not real") if either of the two above-mentioned processes reversed their current trends for five years running.

If that happens 10 years or so from now, I will resurrect this thread and remind you of this statement (unless this thread is still active in 10 years, which it could be). I did skim over the IPCC report, there are of course "fringe" scientists who take issue with parts of it.

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[tundraline]

In the link I posted earlier (which I doubt anyone followed and read) there were some comments from Paolo B. DePetrillo, MD. He wrote up an analysis of weather data which was kind of interesting. Link here: http://www.well.com/user/pdeep/pages/wa ... 1019.shtml

This graph is from his analysis. Even to an untrained eye like mine, a pattern emerges...



Falls in line with what I've always believed about the weather... it's cyclical, and our samples are far too small to draw any incontrovertible conclusions.

Why would anyone who is seriously interested in the topic of global warming even bother looking at a few musings prepared by a medical doctor on the topic? This appears to be consistent with the well-established trend of global warming naysayers having to resort to citing "experts" such as Benny Peiser, Rush Limbaugh, John Coleman and the like. Even DePetrillo writes: "I learned how to develop and test nonlinear models as part of my work in pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics. I have absolutely no formal background in climate science . . . .

[rob runkle]

Why would anyone who is seriously interested in the topic of global warming even bother looking at a few musings prepared by a medical doctor on the topic? This appears to be consistent with the well-established trend of global warming naysayers having to resort to citing "experts" such as Benny Peiser, Rush Limbaugh, John Coleman and the like. Even DePetrillo writes: "I learned how to develop and test nonlinear models as part of my work in pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics. I have absolutely no formal background in climate science . . . .

Why would anyone who is seriously interested in the topic of global warming even bother looking at a few musings prepared by a ex-vice president on the topic? This appears to be consistent with the well-established trend of global warming proponents having to resort to citing "experts" such as Leonardo Decaprio, Brad Bitt, Rosie O'Donnell and the like. <Sorry I don't have any disclaimers from Gore on the topic. He must be a REAL expert!!!>

Covrider... You had to know that you would get this kind of response (like from tundraline). Some people just don't understand that data anaylsis and modeling does not necessarily require one be an expert on the subject. You should have seen this one coming from a mile away Cov... :D

[tundraline]

Why would anyone who is seriously interested in the topic of global warming even bother looking at a few musings prepared by a medical doctor on the topic? This appears to be consistent with the well-established trend of global warming naysayers having to resort to citing "experts" such as Benny Peiser, Rush Limbaugh, John Coleman and the like. Even DePetrillo writes: "I learned how to develop and test nonlinear models as part of my work in pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics. I have absolutely no formal background in climate science . . . .

Why would anyone who is seriously interested in the topic of global warming even bother looking at a few musings prepared by a ex-vice president on the topic? This appears to be consistent with the well-established trend of global warming proponents having to resort to citing "experts" such as Leonardo Decaprio, Brad Bitt, Rosie O'Donnell and the like. <Sorry I don't have any disclaimers from Gore on the topic. He must be a REAL expert!!!>

Covrider... You had to know that you would get this kind of response (like from tundraline). Some people just don't understand that data anaylsis and modeling does not necessarily require one be an expert on the subject. You should have seen this one coming from a mile away Cov... :D

Rob Runkle: I've not read anything of substance you have posted on this topic. What I have read, instead, is a lot of petty nasty sniping and potshots, most with a poorly disguised gloss of superiority. Why don't you spend your time more productively by finding some credible information that supports your overtly politicized position, and posting it here for us to read? Me thinks the problem is that you are having a hard time finding something.

BTW, I'm neither a Republican nor a Democrat, so your neat little vision of the world being split into red and blue camps doesn't work. Both parties are essentially worthless, IMHO. FWIW, I am also quite confident that my understanding of scientific data and its analysis is substantially deeper than yours. On that basis, I therefore place you in the category of those who "just don't understand" data analysis and modeling. But you might be able to prove me wrong. Please have at it.

[Mark A Steiner]

Quite amazing, given the fact that this thread at times appears dead, then in resurrected.

Feeling are pretty strong on both sides of this discussion. I believe valid points have been raised and fairly delivered. I don't believe borderline personal attacks are warranted, as all of us are human and have flaws unique to each individual. No one can be right all the time.

I still believe that there is not enough representative data collected to say yea or nay to global warming or other climate change. Even if we have good data going back to 100 years ago, major climate shifts occurred centuries before and without the help of internal combustion engines and coal-fired industrial plants. Then too, data can be interpreted in manners unique to all the interpreters.

There is always room for improvement regarding how we manage our resources, including fuels. I believe the "extract the resource for regardless of consequences elsewhere" is going the way of the dinosaur. The too, obstructive restriction of available, responsibly-extractable resources in a modern society is not an acceptable course of action either. Do you want to be told that instead of climbing five 14ers in a given year you can only hike one 13er?

Here's a question: before this thread was initiated by bayouboy some days ago, has the sum total of carbon atoms in the atmosphere, biosphere, lithosphere, mantle, outer core or inner core of the Earth increased, decreased or remained the same?