Class 2 vs Difficult Class 2
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Class 2 vs Difficult Class 2
What do people consider the differences between Class 2 and Difficult Class 2, or similarly Class 3 vs Easy Class 3? Is it mostly about a certain aspect like distance, exposure, etc? Or is it just that they're too hard to be called Class 2, but too easy to be Class 3?
I ask because I just did my first Easy Class 3 (Sneffels) and I found it easier than most of the Class 2 mountains I've done in the Sawatch range, just more dangerous / exposed / technical.
I ask because I just did my first Easy Class 3 (Sneffels) and I found it easier than most of the Class 2 mountains I've done in the Sawatch range, just more dangerous / exposed / technical.
- AlexeyD
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Re: Class 2 vs Difficult Class 2
Distance has nothing to do with it. You said it yourself:hikebikeboardrocks wrote:What do people consider the differences between Class 2 and Difficult Class 2, or similarly Class 3 vs Easy Class 3? Is it mostly about a certain aspect like distance, exposure, etc? Or is it just that they're too hard to be called Class 2, but too easy to be Class 3?
I ask because I just did my first Easy Class 3 (Sneffels) and I found it easier than most of the Class 2 mountains I've done in the Sawatch range, just more dangerous / exposed / technical.
"Difficult" needs to be understood in the proper context, i.e. what exactly the class rating is measuring. Most people would probably find it more difficult in a general sense to run 100 miles on Class 1, than to do a 5-mile route with some class 3 on it. But this has nothing to do with the definition of Class 3 vs. class 2, etc.hikebikeboardrocks wrote:just more dangerous / exposed / technical.
As for what "Difficult Class 2" means in practical terms, it's pretty much what it sounds like: class 2 that perhaps approaches class 3 at times, with some elements like loose rock, occasional scrambling, exposure, etc. that are more typical of class 3 than class 2 terrain.
Last edited by AlexeyD on Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- highpilgrim
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Re: Class 2 vs Difficult Class 2
Difficult class 2 is kinda silly.
It's all just walking on rocks. Maybe you use a hand for balance once in a while, but still.
It's all just walking on rocks. Maybe you use a hand for balance once in a while, but still.
Call on God, but row away from the rocks.
Hunter S Thompson
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Hunter S Thompson
Walk away from the droning and leave the hive behind.
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Re: Class 2 vs Difficult Class 2
I agree that it is kind of silly but the definition of Class 2 is fairly broad and can include a rather wide variety of terrain.
Believe me some Class 2 routes are far more difficult than others.
Distance and exposure have nothing to do with it.
Believe me some Class 2 routes are far more difficult than others.
Distance and exposure have nothing to do with it.
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Re: Class 2 vs Difficult Class 2
Sneffels is Class 2. Easy 3 would be something like Wetterhorn. Moderate 3 would be Wilson Peak, and then Mount Wilson, Pyramid, the Crestones and Eolus are in the stiff 3 category.
I understand the original intention of YDS was for all the class levels to have decimal precision the way Class 5 does. Imagine all the long, pointless debates we could have over whether Crestone Needle is 3.6 or 3.7. I guess the pavement up to Evans goes 1.1.
I understand the original intention of YDS was for all the class levels to have decimal precision the way Class 5 does. Imagine all the long, pointless debates we could have over whether Crestone Needle is 3.6 or 3.7. I guess the pavement up to Evans goes 1.1.
You never know what is enough until you know what is more than enough. -- William Blake
- AlexeyD
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Re: Class 2 vs Difficult Class 2
This may be true when the standard route is melted out, I don't know because I haven't done it when it is, but when the V-notch is blocked by snow, it's most definitely class 3. Short enough to be called "easy", I agree, but 3 nonetheless.TravelingMatt wrote:Sneffels is Class 2.
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Re: Class 2 vs Difficult Class 2
The single move at the v-notch is class 3 (dry). I'm presuming that because it is only one move the route as a whole is class 2 or 2+AlexeyD wrote:This may be true when the standard route is melted out, I don't know because I haven't done it when it is, but when the V-notch is blocked by snow, it's most definitely class 3. Short enough to be called "easy", I agree, but 3 nonetheless.TravelingMatt wrote:Sneffels is Class 2.
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Re: Class 2 vs Difficult Class 2
Gotcha. I realize I was a little unclear in how I phrased my previous statement; what I meant to say was the when the V-notch is blocked by snow, the bypass (a couple dozen feet up and right) required to exit the Lavender couloir is decidedly Class 3. About 40' of it or so, if memory serves me right. So it sounds like the route is class 3 either way, just that when dry the Class 3 section is very short.Wish I lived in CO wrote:The single move at the v-notch is class 3 (dry). I'm presuming that because it is only one move the route as a whole is class 2 or 2+
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Re: Class 2 vs Difficult Class 2
It is a bit subjective, but I will generally use the term "difficult class 2" or "2+" in two cases:
1) Really steep and loose (generally in a gully) that doesn't require hands, but feels like you are going to slide down at any moment. You may want to hug the cliffs on either side of such a gully, using your hands on the edges of the cliff to help ease your mind regarding the lack of purchase for your feet. So class 2 in the technical sense, but where you want something extra for balance. Maybe going up above Lavender Col on Sneffels would qualify? I haven't been up the route for years so not sure how much of a trail is in it these days.
2) Big boulder hopping. Not just walking on talus, but I mean boulders that are as large or larger than most kitchen appliances. Hopping from stove to stove with a refrigerator mixed in. It might not require hands or any real scrambling, but its not just simply walking on rocks either. I used it in this context on the Halo Route for this site. Sometimes mountain spiders force you into harder moves
So in either case you don't really need hands or scrambling to move through the terrain, but the terrain is awkward enough that you may feel the need for some balance assistance with hands. At least that is how I use it.
1) Really steep and loose (generally in a gully) that doesn't require hands, but feels like you are going to slide down at any moment. You may want to hug the cliffs on either side of such a gully, using your hands on the edges of the cliff to help ease your mind regarding the lack of purchase for your feet. So class 2 in the technical sense, but where you want something extra for balance. Maybe going up above Lavender Col on Sneffels would qualify? I haven't been up the route for years so not sure how much of a trail is in it these days.
2) Big boulder hopping. Not just walking on talus, but I mean boulders that are as large or larger than most kitchen appliances. Hopping from stove to stove with a refrigerator mixed in. It might not require hands or any real scrambling, but its not just simply walking on rocks either. I used it in this context on the Halo Route for this site. Sometimes mountain spiders force you into harder moves
So in either case you don't really need hands or scrambling to move through the terrain, but the terrain is awkward enough that you may feel the need for some balance assistance with hands. At least that is how I use it.
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Re: Class 2 vs Difficult Class 2
Yeah, I was thinking about that too. Something like the route around Chasm Lake comes to mind in particular. Honestly I think that type of stuff deserves its own rating...maybe "M" for moraine? The High Sierra is chock full of it...avoid if possible!Chicago Transplant wrote:2) Big boulder hopping. Not just walking on talus, but I mean boulders that are as large or larger than most kitchen appliances. Hopping from stove to stove with a refrigerator mixed in.
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Re: Class 2 vs Difficult Class 2
Challenger Point is ranked Difficult Class 2, and I'd certainly call it the most difficult class 2 I've attempted. It's very steep at parts, and has lots of loose rock. While steep, I'd say not really exposed if you stick to the route. It also has a nice rock rib with super solid rock to hold onto during a part of the steeper section. We did have a few issues with the hiker above us kicking rocks down on top of us. Despite this, I don't think that's a typical experience. Definitely more exposure and difficulty then most class 2, but I wouldn't call it class 3 territory. I never felt like I needed a helmet (we waited in a safe spot for the dude kicking rocks), and we had helmets for Kit Carson.hikebikeboardrocks wrote:What do people consider the differences between Class 2 and Difficult Class 2, or similarly Class 3 vs Easy Class 3? Is it mostly about a certain aspect like distance, exposure, etc? Or is it just that they're too hard to be called Class 2, but too easy to be Class 3?
I ask because I just did my first Easy Class 3 (Sneffels) and I found it easier than most of the Class 2 mountains I've done in the Sawatch range, just more dangerous / exposed / technical.
I haven't done Sneffels. Just wondering what Sawatch you found more difficult?
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Re: Class 2 vs Difficult Class 2
Dusting off my high school SAT memories.
Class 2 : hiking :: 5.9 : climbing.
Class 2 : hiking :: 5.9 : climbing.
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