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benlen wrote:Kai, HOLY s**t! Damn! I do hope Cali bears don't teach Colorado ones how to do this...
LOL Yeah that's the thing about bears, especially hungry ones, they're smart enough to learn these things on their own with no outside instruction necessary.
"I want to keep the mountains clean of racism, religion and politics. In the mountains this should play no role."
- Joe Stettner
"I haven't climbed Everest, skied to the poles, or sailed single-handed around the world. The goals I set out to accomplish aren't easily measured or quantified by world records or "firsts." The reasons I climb, and the climbs I do, are about more than distance or altitude, they are about breaking barriers within myself."
Thanks for all the input. I'll probably go with the Bear Vault 450 if Boulder REI has them. A subway cold cut combo sounds like a great easy dinner and might even arrive in one piece in the canister.
When backpacking on the trail, I’ve had a ranger ask to see my bear canister. It was in my pack, and the ranger just wanted to confirm that I wasn’t using an ursack or bear bag.
Interesting. When I was on the Four Pass I used the Ursack/Opsak combo, as the Ursack is on the IGBC approved list. The ranger seemed to think that was an acceptable combo.
Same here. This past June, I even called the ranger to ask if an Ursack was acceptable (because it's on the IGBC list) and they said yes. Maybe it depends on the ranger you ask.
I would personally always choose the ursack/opsak over the canister unless it is strictly not allowed. It's way lighter and takes up less space in your pack. I also never try to do a traditional bear hang anymore because it's so hard to do a proper hang with the dinky little trees we have in this part of the country.
benlen wrote:Bear cans suck, but they're a necessary evil at this point. I'd get one of the small Bear Vaults, they work well. A few years ago some models were difficult to open, but that problem appears to have been fixed largely.
I've read this, though haven't heard of a personal case to verify: If a bear fucks with a ursack, he may not get to your food, but he may destroy the food in the bag anyway trying to get to it. The nice thing about the rigid bear cans is that you can be mostly assured that not only will the bear not get the food, he won't ruin them inside either.
Also, you can throw a sub in the bear vault and not worry about it being squished. I go back and forth, I bought a vault to do capitol this summer but I went too big. It takes up a lot of space, but it isn't too heavy. I think it is worth the weight, because unless you can get your bear bag suspended BETWEEN two trees at least 15 feet in the air (I often find this to be very tedious) the only thing it is doing for you is providing peace of mind.
Ursack actually recommends not hanging the ursack, instead trying it to a tree
After climbing a great hill, one only finds that there are many more hills to climb. -Nelson Mandela
Whenever I climb I am followed by a dog called Ego. -Nietzsche
If you have to use a can, check out https://www.wild-ideas.net/ . The lightest options I've been able to find, though you pay for the pleasure.
You don't need to research further than REI comments for pictures of an ursack ripped open and leaking smashed foods. I have one (the AllMitey with kevlar weaved in), I've used it, it's nice and light. It's not so light when it gets soaking wet after a night of rain. Opsacks aren't totally smell proof, and you will inevitably rub scent on them simply by packing them and pulling stuff in/out during your trip with your grubby camp hands. I still take my bearikade Scout unless I can't spare the pack space that the can takes up.
These are just observations, not attempts at persuasion. Either one reduces the likelihood of a bear learning bad behavior and catching a bullet for doing so, and that's a good thing.
Another thing to throw in the mix is proper storage and handling of food while hiking. It is ideal to keep food in an opsak so food odors don't get on your bag and gear while you are hiking, even if you can't smell it a bear probably can. Clean your hands regularly and clean the outside of the opsak to get rid of smells.
Also, if you are going somewhere where bears have been "trained" to search camps then you better have a good vault. They will go through your camp whether or not they smell stuff because they have learned they will most likely be rewarded. This was an issue in Lake Como for a while several years ago and I think some people were having issues at Willow Lake this summer. The Aspen area has had issues on and off depending on the year, there's definitely a good reason that they started requiring bear vaults.
Try keeping your food wrapped in several zip-lock bags in your canister
Nice thing about having a bear canister if your close to tree line you dont need a tree to hang it
Plus I always keep mine next to rocks with rocks on top, that way you should hear if a bear comes around.
I was told by a Park Biologist that if a bear comes into camp your suppose to move camp because he will come back.
Yeah I've wondered about how the various food odors are managed. I bought the Bear Vault 450 and it would be tempting to leave the top open and just cram everything into the pack, maximizing the space, but food odors would be all over everything. But if you put just food in the bear canister and close the lid, that moves you into a higher volume (and wt) pack for just a simple overnighter. Decisions decisions.
I just did a loop through the MB-Snowmass Wilderness. Prior to the trip I contacted the ranger district and was told Ursacks ( the approved ones) are allowed. I used a Garcia Backpacker's Cache. I'm moving to the Adirondacks in the somewhat near future and the Bear Vaults were not allowed there for a long time nor are the Ursacks. The Backpackers Cache is a touch smaller and a couple ounces heavier than the Bear Vault. I have seen and heard stories of bears in the Sierra's and Adirondacks compromising the Bear Vaults like the photos above. The lurking bears in the Maroon Bells Snowmass Wilderness seem to get the most complaints at the sites near Crater Lake. I camped 2 nights at random spots including along Capitol Creek near the West Snowmass Trail jct and has no animal problems. Capitol Lake was teeming with marmots and I could see them being a problem. When I'm not required to carry a canister I use the PCT method bear hang. Canisters are bulky and heavy but I guess necessary at times. And definitely don't keep it in you tent.
Yeah that's the thing about bears, especially hungry ones, they're smart enough to learn these things on their own with no outside instruction necessary.
