College vs skilled trades. What's your take?

Items that do not fit the categories above.
Forum rules
  • This is a mountaineering forum, so please keep your posts on-topic. Posts do not all have to be related to the 14ers but should at least be mountaineering-related.
  • Personal attacks and confrontational behavior will result in removal from the forum at the discretion of the administrators.
  • Do not use this forum to advertise, sell photos or other products or promote a commercial website.
  • Posts will be removed at the discretion of the site administrator or moderator(s), including: Troll posts, posts pushing political views or religious beliefs, and posts with the purpose of instigating conflict within the forum.
For more details, please see the Terms of Use you agreed to when joining the forum.
User avatar
Jesse M
Posts: 550
Joined: 7/18/2011
13ers: 15
Trip Reports (0)
 

Re: College vs skilled trades. What's your take?

Post by Jesse M »

[]
Do what you want, life is a one way ticket :YY
"If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything."
User avatar
Carl_Healy
Posts: 271
Joined: 7/29/2020
14ers: 19  3 
13ers: 50 1 3
Trip Reports (4)
 
Contact:

Re: College vs skilled trades. What's your take?

Post by Carl_Healy »

A STEM degree is going to be worthwhile no matter what.

That's not to say there isn't value in skilled trades.
I feel like a lot of the field people I've run into working on drilling rigs in the oil and gas industry, particularly those with 5, 10, or even more years experience, know a hell of a lot more than half my classmates who went for an engineering degree.

But all that being said, when it comes to the oil and gas industry things are completely different country to country. I can say from experience you'll run into a roughneck on the drill floor in West Texas that doesn't have a college degree (thoug in some respects is still knowledgeable in a lot of ways), but go to an offshore rig in Norway and even the lowest of rig hands has a college degree. Same for offshore UK.
And you'll be surprised how Alberta is similar in a lot of respects to UK and Norway.
If you can't run, you walk
If you can't walk, you crawl
If you can't crawl, you find someone to carry you
ker0uac
Posts: 547
Joined: 8/30/2016
Trip Reports (0)
 

Re: College vs skilled trades. What's your take?

Post by ker0uac »

I have never met an engineer who works as an engineer. At most, I know engineers who work in their industry but in leadership/management roles. Even those in CE/CS, at some point in my experience, they quit coding and move on to mgtm roles. That's not always the case, but it's the corporate model otherwise your chances for advancement become very limited. The value of a STEM degree is that it provides you with highly transferrable skills that can propel your career into most other fields. All hiring managers know that in college you don't learn s**t that is of great use to the industry, but you learn how to learn, how to think, how to troubleshoot, how to be analytical, how to be resilient, etc. Corporations pay big bucks for that, and they know STEM degrees for the most part will develop those skills. They are not paying for what you learned in your bulls**t 101 classes.

When it comes to education and career, I don't think it pays off to be revolutionary. It's best to learn the system and play it accordingly. I am an engineer working in business and I hire and interview people constantly for entry-level business-related roles. A resume that lands on my desk with a STEM degree shines way more than any resume with some fluffy degree like "organizational management", whatever that means. Depending on the roles, I might not even care too much about previous experience. I can teach smart people, but I can't teach dumb people.
Those who travel to mountain-tops are half in love with themselves and half in love with oblivion
User avatar
FireOnTheMountain
Posts: 1181
Joined: 2/28/2011
14ers: 53  1  23 
13ers: 269 29
Trip Reports (23)
 

Re: College vs skilled trades. What's your take?

Post by FireOnTheMountain »

ker0uac wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 11:40 amI have never met an engineer who works as an engineer.
You haven't looked very hard or in the right field then.
Everyday is a G r A t E f U L Day here in the ID...?
User avatar
cedica
Posts: 725
Joined: 6/25/2014
Trip Reports (0)
 

Re: College vs skilled trades. What's your take?

Post by cedica »

ker0uac wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 11:40 am I have never met an engineer who works as an engineer.
Meet Joe Black.jpg
Meet Joe Black.jpg (35.62 KiB) Viewed 2701 times
My friend told me the other day that he is the oldest engineer at the company he works for, and that was the moment I realized this is my dream too. I still have ways to go at the place I work, there are some old school dudes who know where the bodies are buried going way back to first gen of silicon that was designed in the company. Left or right coast management, no matter who currently owns the business, there is no corporate asshat ninja wannabe that can touch them. And that, my dear Jack, is the real Dharma.
User avatar
kimo
Posts: 657
Joined: 9/6/2008
14ers: 32  6 
13ers: 116 6
Trip Reports (0)
 

Re: College vs skilled trades. What's your take?

Post by kimo »

I took a part time job as a drafter straight out of high school because my high school drafting teacher said I had skillz. My dad hated my decision, and said i would never make any money. This is the early 90s.

Turns out I had some inherent technical ability to go with my high school drafting skills so I dropped out of college and took a job as a mechanical designer three years later.

A few years after that, I was hired by another company as a "multi disciplined engineer" without a degree. I'm still with that company more than 20 years later.

I didn't go to trade school and I didn't finish college but I've had a very fulfilling career. These days I wouldn't get in the door for an interview at my company without an engineering degree. I am blocked out of management position but I'd rather stay on the technical side so no harm no foul.

Times have changed and I feel very fortunate to get my job before a degree became a non-negotiable requirement. Common sense, creativity, work ethic, attention to detail, and loyalty have contributed to my success. Oh and knowing where "the bodies are buried" from way back when doesn't hurt.
User avatar
Bombay2Boulder
Posts: 580
Joined: 1/19/2015
14ers: 56  3 
13ers: 269 1
Trip Reports (4)
 

Re: College vs skilled trades. What's your take?

Post by Bombay2Boulder »

FireOnTheMountain wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 12:20 pm
ker0uac wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 11:40 amI have never met an engineer who works as an engineer.
You haven't looked very hard or in the right field then.
+1
User avatar
AnnaG22
Posts: 814
Joined: 9/16/2013
14ers: 58  7  20 
13ers: 124 3 6
Trip Reports (5)
 
Contact:

Re: College vs skilled trades. What's your take?

Post by AnnaG22 »

Bombay2Boulder wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 2:14 pm
FireOnTheMountain wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 12:20 pm
ker0uac wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 11:40 amI have never met an engineer who works as an engineer.
You haven't looked very hard or in the right field then.
+1
I know quite a few, and can think of several just off the top of my head who are in the 14ers community.
"The love of wilderness is more than a hunger for what is always beyond reach; it is also an expression of loyalty to the earth, the earth which bore us and sustains us, the only home we shall ever know, the only paradise we ever need – if only we had the eyes to see." -Ed Abbey

"I get scared sometimes—lots of times—but it's not bad. You know? I feel close to myself. When I'm out there at night, I feel close to my own body, I can feel my blood moving, my skin and my fingernails, everything, it's like I'm full of electricity and I'm glowing in the dark—I'm on fire almost—I'm burning away into nothing—but it doesn't matter because I know exactly who I am." from The Things They Carried
ker0uac
Posts: 547
Joined: 8/30/2016
Trip Reports (0)
 

Re: College vs skilled trades. What's your take?

Post by ker0uac »

Those with like ~5-10yrs of experience are certainly still doing field work. And I am sure there are veteran engineers out there still in the field getting their hands dirty daily or coding non-stop. But in Corporate America, in technical fields, the people calling the shots and making the big bucks are sitting in offices, attending bulls**t meetings all day and telling the practicing engineers what to do - just not "how" to do. Surely, there are exceptions, such as small businesses and government agencies. I get some people would be much happier pursuing a technical track and want nothing to do with management. I pass no judgement but I am saying that it limits your advancement and at some point you end up being pushed out for being too expensive. You might be able to use the "I know where the bodies are buried" blah blah, but not so sure that flies everywhere. In my current company, lots of veteran coders felt safe coz our mainframes ran on Fortran and they were the only ones who knew Fortran. Well, my company invested $100M over 2yrs to upgrade all mainframes. Boom!

My point is that the career paths of a CTE and Engineering graduate might be similar in the very beginning, but they eventually diverge significantly. That's the value of that degree.
Those who travel to mountain-tops are half in love with themselves and half in love with oblivion
User avatar
SchralpTheGnar
Posts: 1881
Joined: 2/26/2008
14ers: 51  49  1 
13ers: 38 30
Trip Reports (22)
 

Re: College vs skilled trades. What's your take?

Post by SchralpTheGnar »

The Venn diagram overlap between what makes a good engineer and what makes a good manager is small.
User avatar
highpilgrim
Posts: 3186
Joined: 3/14/2008
14ers: 58 
13ers: 84 1
Trip Reports (1)
 

Re: College vs skilled trades. What's your take?

Post by highpilgrim »

ker0uac wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 11:40 am I have never met an engineer who works as an engineer.

I guess that’s an indicator of how narrow your life experience must be.
Call on God, but row away from the rocks.
Hunter S Thompson

Walk away from the droning and leave the hive behind.
Dick Derkase
User avatar
Dave B
Posts: 2390
Joined: 6/14/2010
Trip Reports (9)
 

Re: College vs skilled trades. What's your take?

Post by Dave B »

SchralpTheGnar wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 8:17 pm The Venn diagram overlap between what makes a good engineer and what makes a good manager is small.
The Venn diagram overlap between people in general and what makes a good manager is small. Too many people get promoted to leadership positions simply based off performing non-management tasks well. Peter principle.

But, seeing as I can't let a good opportunity to rag on engineers go to waste: engineers seem to be even worse at it.
Make wilderness less accessible.
Post Reply