Incident for analysis

[DArcyS]

Hard to believe, but it's been almost 20 years since Aron Ralston's accident. After Aron made a name for himself (because of an outcome that wouldn't have occurred if he'd been responsible and told somebody where he was going), I started to pay attention to people's response to the camera after they had been rescued -- maybe they too were seeking their 15 minutes.

And then there might be those Les Stroud wannabe's.

So be it.

[Jorts]

Life's too short to give attention to people like this.

With regards to people who actually feel they need rescued in the backcountry, it's a broad spectrum. There are those who will die if they don't receive immediate medical intervention, and still don't want it (but receive it anyway once they become unresponsive). And then there are those who I would say are on the opposite side of the spectrum: they're mildly exhausted, call dispatch and explain how they need a helicopter or they'll die. This guy appears to have been the latter. For attention. Which he's getting.

[434stonemill]

I had meant to post a link to this short report on the state of SAR's around the US that ran on PBS a while back, but never did. I don't know if anyone had shared it. But this seems like an appropriate thread to add it to.

https://www.pbs.org/video/search-and-re ... 666046168/

One of the main discussion points in the piece, is whether SAR should charge for rescues. There are states where this is being discussed or has been implemented. As the piece shows, the SAR's in Colorado, while under more demands and stress, still don't think its a good idea.

That being said, I hope this piece of work gets a bill.

[markf]

One of the main discussion points in the piece, is whether SAR should charge for rescues. There are states where this is being discussed or has been implemented. As the piece shows, the SAR's in Colorado, while under more demands and stress, still don't think its a good idea.

That being said, I hope this piece of work gets a bill.

As was pointed out in the piece, New Hampshire is billing people who need a rescue because of their own reckless behavior. Yosemite National Park has been doing this at least since the 1990s, by fining people for "creating a hazardous situation" if they are judged to have behaved recklessly. In both cases, the intent seems to be to motivate people to act a little more prudently in the backcountry, and to plan their outings a little more carefully. I would be quite happy to see such a policy implemented here in Colorado (and in Idaho, starting with the POS who posted the YT video.

[Dave B]

I actually just tried watching the video instead of just making fun of it.

Had to quit at the "hike 2 miles to meet SAR or die" crossroads around a minute in.

[Wildernessjane]

As was pointed out in the piece, New Hampshire is billing people who need a rescue because of their own reckless behavior. Yosemite National Park has been doing this at least since the 1990s, by fining people for "creating a hazardous situation" if they are judged to have behaved recklessly. In both cases, the intent seems to be to motivate people to act a little more prudently in the backcountry, and to plan their outings a little more carefully. I would be quite happy to see such a policy implemented here in Colorado (and in Idaho, starting with the POS who posted the YT video.

That’s a really slippery slope though…who gets to decide what reasonably constitutes ”creating a hazardous situation”? I mean, I agree with the spirit of this. However, there is a tendency to judge as reckless in others what we don’t have the skills or experience to do ourselves. So to someone who is not an outdoor enthusiast, venturing out to ski a couloir or complete a class 3/4 peak in the winter might very well be considered reckless.

What really stood out to me in the video was this guy’s lack of understanding in how SAR works. He seemed to think that because he was paying for an InReach subscription and had extra insurance that he was entitled to a “professional SAR rescue” with no questions asked. However I really don’t think this is an unusual mindset. I don’t think a lot of casual outdoor enthusiasts realize that the SAR response you will receive in Huerfano county, for example, is not going to be same as you’ll get in RMNP or outside of Telluride where there are a lot more resources and a larger population to pull volunteers from. I think people also mistakenly think once you push that button your rescuers will appear out of nowhere when an actual rescue takes a considerable amount of time to coordinate so you’d better be prepared to make it through the night.

For awhile, Aspen SAR was including people’s names in FB reports and shaming them for getting themselves into these situations (at least I thought so…) and I remember thinking I’d have to be on my deathbed to call for help. I still feel this way. Personally, I think this has potential to do more harm than good.

[Been_Jammin]

I feel bad for the dude. His side of the story makes the rescue team look like jerks.

I'm waffling on my opinion. This dude sucks.

[timisimaginary]

I actually just tried watching the video instead of just making fun of it.

Had to quit at the "hike 2 miles to meet SAR or die" crossroads around a minute in.

i watched the whole video. it doesn't get better.

the thing that pissed me off, instead of just laughing it off and moving on with my day as we all probably should, is how he talks about his rescuers. let's give him the benefit of the doubt for a second that he really did think he was in a life-threatening situation. how could you be anything less than incredibly grateful towards the people you allegedly believe to have saved your life? even if they were laughing at you. even if they called you an idiot. even if they lacked actual "SAR training." every other legitimate rescue situation i've ever read about, the rescued person was nothing but thankful towards SAR personnel, and even if they said critical things about you, only agreed and said "yes, i was an idiot, i deserve any scorn or critical comments that come my way."

instead, this guy posts a long weepy video complaining about what meanies they were for not sending a helicopter or coming for him right away despite him telling them he was safe, with shelter and food and close to a trailhead. and then accuse them of doxxing him when they did nothing of the kind, only posted his name which is public record on a police call anyway. but even worse than that, and what's really sad to me, is his army of youtube followers who then descended on the Facebook page of the county sherrifs who conducted the operation to criticize them. they do their job to rescue this douchebag (my words, not theirs, despite what this influencer says) and post what are at most mildly critical comments, but mostly just a factual account of the circumstances (confirmed in his own video) and for that they get hundreds of comments telling them how terrible and unprofessional they are. they don't deserve that.

i agree with the general view that shaming people for calling rescue is dangerous and can lead to people delaying using SOS til it's too late. but i also agree with people being educated about when it is or is not appropriate to call SAR, and this was a classic case of someone calling SAR unnecessarily and then expecting way too much from them and way too little from himself. people have to understand that, unless you are incapacitated or badly injured, you are still your own primary rescuer even after SAR becomes involved. as for deterring people from calling SAR, his video trashing the officers who came for him seems more likely to do that then anything they posted on Facebook. even if he ends the video saying "I still recommend people hit SOS if they feel they're in danger", it doesn't mean much after 25 minutes of whining and crocodile tears about how he was treated.

[dwoodward13]

However I really don’t think this is an unusual mindset. I don’t think a lot of casual outdoor enthusiasts realize that the SAR response you will receive in Huerfano county, for example, is not going to be same as you’ll get in RMNP or outside of Telluride where there are a lot more resources and a larger population to pull volunteers from. I think people also mistakenly think once you push that button your rescuers will appear out of nowhere when an actual rescue takes a considerable amount of time to coordinate so you’d better be prepared to make it through the night.

100% this. As Inreaches/Spots and now the iPhone 14 SOS feature become increasingly ubiquitous, this is a point that needs to be driven home by the community and probably SAR organizations themselves. You could be waiting hours or even day(s) for rescue depending on the circumstance and weather. And even once SAR makes it to you, you still could be waiting day(s) to get to established medical care. Just look at the guy on Yale a few weeks ago that once SAR reached him, they decided the best course of action was to wait out the night.

Your planned margin for error and risk tolerance needs to include these possibilities.

[dan0rama]

The vast majority of people out in the backcountry who might need SAR are either genz or millennials who are perhaps the least stoic and self-reliant generation to ever set foot on this planet. These are the people so hopped up on psychotropics that they are incapable of tolerating the slightest emotional pain. So I think we are eons away from having to worry about discouraging these generations from calling SAR when they get into "trouble". I think it's a non-issue created by the incessant need to coddle everyone.

[SkaredShtles]

Good to see that old men are still keeping up the "damned kids these days" shaking-fist-at-sky nonsense.

[justiner]

LOL YOUTHS!

This made me smile: MTBer comes to the rescue to a basejump accident by crack climbing up to them - SAR team smiles and chuckles,



Pass the shrooms - party in the desert!