Colorado's changing forests

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Scott P
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Re: Colorado's changing forests

Post by Scott P »

randalmartin wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 4:50 pm One of the things I found interesting was when you go back and look at photos of Colorado from the 1800s and early 1900s and compare to a photo of the same location today, you will generally find that we have WAY more trees today than we did back then. I have always assumed it is due to the aggressive fire suppression strategy used today which doesn't allow the natural maintenance of forests.
It depends on which part of Colorado you are looking at. Some have more trees, some have less.

Part of it is fire suppression, but grazing is a big reason too. There were more grasslands in much of Colorado before grazing of domestic animals. Trees have taken over some of the former grasslands since grazing started.
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Re: Colorado's changing forests

Post by Scott P »

Carl the Cuttlefish wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 3:11 pm -40F temps do kill beetles, but they also kill other plants that are trying to grow up along side.
This is true. The same cold snap I mentioned in 1951 which wiped out the pine beetle epidemic in Colorado also wiped out most of the fruit trees in and near the Front Range cities. Before that cold snap, that part of Colorado was actually a fruit producing area. Most orchard owners either gave up or moved (some of them to Grand Junction and Palisade) after that happened.
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Re: Colorado's changing forests

Post by Scott P »

jibler wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 3:25 pm i seem to recall reading something about a massive wind blowdown event in flattops - that in turn provided beetles with easy eatings and that in turn lead to current outbreak? Does that track?
Yes, that's what started both pine beetle epidemics mentioned.

Most pine beetles only attack dead trees. The blowdowns caused an abundance of dead trees and caused an explosion in the pine beetle population. Pine beetles moved to live trees since the dead ones were all "taken".

This happens every few decades and after big blow downs, but the epidemics usually end by severe cold snaps that wipe out the pine beetles.
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Re: Colorado's changing forests

Post by cottonmountaineering »

randalmartin wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 4:50 pm One of the things I found interesting was when you go back and look at photos of Colorado from the 1800s and early 1900s and compare to a photo of the same location today, you will generally find that we have WAY more trees today than we did back then. I have always assumed it is due to the aggressive fire suppression strategy used today which doesn't allow the natural maintenance of forests.
this is probably true, our current situation is a combination of not letting forest fires run their course, drought, climate change. at some point every forest in CO needs to burn down to reset this mess
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Re: Colorado's changing forests

Post by Dave B »

Scott P wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 6:26 pm Most pine beetles only attack dead trees. The blowdowns caused an abundance of dead trees and caused an explosion in the pine beetle population. Pine beetles moved to live trees since the dead ones were all "taken".
Bark beetles only attack living trees, stressed or dying but not dead. The larvae feed on carbohydrate rich phloem cells in the sapwood. The blue stain of beetle kill pine found at lumber yards is from a fungus that grows from their excrement that is transported through the xylem during transpiration, eventually blocking the cells and killing the tree by preventing water transport to the needles.
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Re: Colorado's changing forests

Post by Scott P »

Dave B wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 7:01 pm
Scott P wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 6:26 pm Most pine beetles only attack dead trees. The blowdowns caused an abundance of dead trees and caused an explosion in the pine beetle population. Pine beetles moved to live trees since the dead ones were all "taken".
Bark beetles only attack living trees, stressed or dying but not dead.
Yes, you are correct. I made the above posts from memory and now that you mention it, it is stressed or dying trees that are usually attacked and when the population explodes, they move to healthy trees.

Thanks for the correction.
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Re: Colorado's changing forests

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Where do you think the biggest trees in Colorado are? Or the oldest?

I've seen some big ones behind Snowmass near Marble.
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Re: Colorado's changing forests

Post by Jorts »

XterraRob wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 11:31 pm Where do you think the biggest trees in Colorado are? Or the oldest?

I've seen some big ones behind Snowmass near Marble.
Deep in the never deforested Wemi?
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Re: Colorado's changing forests

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XterraRob wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 11:31 pm Where do you think the biggest trees in Colorado are? Or the oldest?
Oldest would be the Bristlecone Pines. Oldest near Craig, CO according to this article is almost 2,500 years old. https://www.5280.com/colorado-by-nature ... one-pines/
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Re: Colorado's changing forests

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randalmartin wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 6:52 am
XterraRob wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 11:31 pm Where do you think the biggest trees in Colorado are? Or the oldest?
Oldest would be the Bristlecone Pines. Oldest near Craig, CO according to this article is almost 2,500 years old. https://www.5280.com/colorado-by-nature ... one-pines/
That article is in error. There are no bristecones around Craig. The reason for the error is that the oldest bristlecone is on Black Mountain in Pike National Forest near Guffey. Although the top Google search for Black Mountain Colorado brings up the Black Mountain by Craig, there are many Black Mountains in Colorado and the one with the bristecones is far from there (and Craig is far from anywhere in the Pike National Forest).
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Re: Colorado's changing forests

Post by cougar »

The biggest trees would likely be in areas with the most precipitation, but also a milder climate for a somewhat longer growing seasons, and long living trees. Thinking valleys in the Weminuche. Year round precipitation. Other areas like the Park Range get more snow but colder climate on average and less intense monsoons. Maybe some spots in the Elks. The biggest aspen grow there.
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Re: Colorado's changing forests

Post by rijaca »

randalmartin wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 4:50 pm One of the things I found interesting was when you go back and look at photos of Colorado from the 1800s and early 1900s and compare to a photo of the same location today, you will generally find that we have WAY more trees today than we did back then. I have always assumed it is due to the aggressive fire suppression strategy used today which doesn't allow the natural maintenance of forests.
Most of the trees around Leadville (and other mountain towns) were logged to support construction and for heating.
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