Wolf Restoration Plan Initial Draft
Forum rules
- This is a mountaineering forum, so please keep your posts on-topic. Posts do not all have to be related to the 14ers but should at least be mountaineering-related.
- Personal attacks and confrontational behavior will result in removal from the forum at the discretion of the administrators.
- Do not use this forum to advertise, sell photos or other products or promote a commercial website.
- Posts will be removed at the discretion of the site administrator or moderator(s), including: Troll posts, posts pushing political views or religious beliefs, and posts with the purpose of instigating conflict within the forum.
- Bombay2Boulder
- Posts: 581
- Joined: 1/19/2015
- 14ers: 56 3
- 13ers: 269 1
- Trip Reports (4)
Wolf Restoration Plan Initial Draft
Seems like the prelimnary draft of the plan is out. Will highly recommend reading the full report from CPW if you got the time, the news articles skim thru a lot of different parts https://cpw.state.co.us/learn/Pages/Wol ... ormed.aspx
Some pretty remote terrain for the San Juans out there for the map they had included, includes pretty much all of the Cimmarons and Lake City area, not to mention pretty much all of Holy Cross Wilderness on the 2nd region highlighted. "Releases will occur on state or private lands". Will be interesting to see how this actually pans out in it's final form.
Some pretty remote terrain for the San Juans out there for the map they had included, includes pretty much all of the Cimmarons and Lake City area, not to mention pretty much all of Holy Cross Wilderness on the 2nd region highlighted. "Releases will occur on state or private lands". Will be interesting to see how this actually pans out in it's final form.
- nyker
- Posts: 3235
- Joined: 12/5/2007
- 14ers: 58
- 13ers: 25
- Trip Reports (69)
Re: Wolf Restoration Plan Initial Draft
will be interesting to watch unfold, as wolves tend to have a large domain...also will be interesting to see how the elk population fares
- XterraRob
- Posts: 1133
- Joined: 7/20/2015
- 14ers: 42 7
- 13ers: 14
- Trip Reports (4)
Re: Wolf Restoration Plan Initial Draft
Will the government still be required to compensate ranchers for loss of any livestock due to wolf activity?
Last edited by XterraRob on Sat Dec 10, 2022 3:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
RIP - M56
Re-introduce Grizzly Bears into the Colorado Wilderness™
Re-introduce Grizzly Bears into the Colorado Wilderness™
- Iguru
- Posts: 679
- Joined: 3/6/2006
- 14ers: 18
- 13ers: 2
- Trip Reports (1)
Re: Wolf Restoration Plan Initial Draft
Loss of wildlife?
Don't you mean loss of livestock?
If so, it will be just like other states that have wolf populations, where ranchers are compensated for proven loss of stock animals due to wolf predation.
https://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/Wolve ... f-Plan.pdf (See chapter 6 for details)
Don't you mean loss of livestock?
If so, it will be just like other states that have wolf populations, where ranchers are compensated for proven loss of stock animals due to wolf predation.
https://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/Wolve ... f-Plan.pdf (See chapter 6 for details)
I gotta get me an Avatar.
Re: Wolf Restoration Plan Initial Draft
To preface this I was against this measure for several reasons mostly as an avid hunter and I just feel like Colorado is extremely different then it used to be. The ideal of keeping things as they were in Nature is fantastic but my question is is it practical the way Colorado has changed mostly from a human population standpoint. I also am not a wildlife expert in any nature so I really have no deep rooted knowledge in this arena. My father was a DOW manager for 35 years and was very against the measure so that certainly swayed my thoughts towards it. No real point in debating that any more with the measure passed and ultimately I hope my concerns are very wrong and wolves do wonderful again in our state without affecting elk populations significantly.
That being said I am very surprised that they are targeting it looks like Eagle county including flat tops and Holy Cross Wilderness as the FIRST area they will likely reintroduce wolves. From my uneducated opinion, of all the places in Colorado this just seems like such a high densely populated area to do this. It is my understanding elk populations in Eagle county are already much lower then they were previously and this is in part due to loss of wintering zones. Eagle where I live is a major wintering zone for elk in the Brush Creek valley and the wintering zone is fairly limited and shrinking more and more with new developments. It seems like if wolves are reintroduced in this area elk would be sitting ducks and wolves would routinely be killing elk next to towns up and down the Vail Valley. Elk are already very limited compared to how they used to travel in this country. They pretty much can't cross the interstate and move south to north very well due to gaming fences etc. It just seems like Northwest Colorado, San Juans etc have such a better chance of letting a wolf population be sustainable without routine human interaction. It seems like if wolves are released in Eagle County I will soon be seeing a pack in and around Eagle all winter. Maybe I am wrong and maybe that is a good thing and I understand the theory that it will help Elk genetics etc but it just seems like a very weird place to target the initial release. The experts have clearly studied and disagree based on their maps but man it just seemed like the last place to target wolf transplantation to me as I personally think of the western slope...
I am very glad to see that if it is negatively impacting elk and deer populations that they could develop a plan to cut back on the wolf population.
Hopefully it all works out...
That being said I am very surprised that they are targeting it looks like Eagle county including flat tops and Holy Cross Wilderness as the FIRST area they will likely reintroduce wolves. From my uneducated opinion, of all the places in Colorado this just seems like such a high densely populated area to do this. It is my understanding elk populations in Eagle county are already much lower then they were previously and this is in part due to loss of wintering zones. Eagle where I live is a major wintering zone for elk in the Brush Creek valley and the wintering zone is fairly limited and shrinking more and more with new developments. It seems like if wolves are reintroduced in this area elk would be sitting ducks and wolves would routinely be killing elk next to towns up and down the Vail Valley. Elk are already very limited compared to how they used to travel in this country. They pretty much can't cross the interstate and move south to north very well due to gaming fences etc. It just seems like Northwest Colorado, San Juans etc have such a better chance of letting a wolf population be sustainable without routine human interaction. It seems like if wolves are released in Eagle County I will soon be seeing a pack in and around Eagle all winter. Maybe I am wrong and maybe that is a good thing and I understand the theory that it will help Elk genetics etc but it just seems like a very weird place to target the initial release. The experts have clearly studied and disagree based on their maps but man it just seemed like the last place to target wolf transplantation to me as I personally think of the western slope...
I am very glad to see that if it is negatively impacting elk and deer populations that they could develop a plan to cut back on the wolf population.
Hopefully it all works out...
- Carl the Cuttlefish
- Posts: 51
- Joined: 12/9/2019
- Trip Reports (0)
Re: Wolf Restoration Plan Initial Draft
We talked to a rancher by Carbondale and he mentioned the mountain lion population is WAY up from what it used to be back in the day, and they were doing a pretty good job of thinning the elk. He no longer hunts elk, he just hunts lions cause there's so many. In the absence of one predator, another one jumps in.
I'm sure the Yellowstone films had something to do with all this, and it sounds like a good idea but questionable how wise it actually is. Relatives in MN aren't incredibly hot on the wolves because one by themselves isn't a big deal, but a pack of them can cause concerns, like if your kids are playing in the yard by themselves.
FWIW I'd rather have them drop jaguars in Texas and the SE US. I fully believe they could live there, they used to, and they are much less dangerous AND that area doesn't have much apex predators, while CO already has the lions.
I'm sure the Yellowstone films had something to do with all this, and it sounds like a good idea but questionable how wise it actually is. Relatives in MN aren't incredibly hot on the wolves because one by themselves isn't a big deal, but a pack of them can cause concerns, like if your kids are playing in the yard by themselves.
FWIW I'd rather have them drop jaguars in Texas and the SE US. I fully believe they could live there, they used to, and they are much less dangerous AND that area doesn't have much apex predators, while CO already has the lions.
- Wentzl
- Posts: 1030
- Joined: 7/29/2008
- 14ers: 58 20
- 13ers: 55
- Trip Reports (49)
Re: Wolf Restoration Plan Initial Draft
This wolf reintroduction story is a good one. Well rounded coverage of a very divisive issue.
https://coloradosun.com/2022/10/17/wolv ... on-cattle/
Seems to take the "mystery" out of the slaughter of livestock around Meeker.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... tle-deaths
The video embedded in the middle of the first story, showing the wolf pack crossing the road near Walden, seems to demonstrate reintroduction of wolves into Colorado is a moot issue.
Colorado DOW can kick back and say Mission Accomplished.
https://coloradosun.com/2022/10/17/wolv ... on-cattle/
Seems to take the "mystery" out of the slaughter of livestock around Meeker.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... tle-deaths
The video embedded in the middle of the first story, showing the wolf pack crossing the road near Walden, seems to demonstrate reintroduction of wolves into Colorado is a moot issue.
Colorado DOW can kick back and say Mission Accomplished.
Shorter of Breath and One Day Closer . . .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZXKgl8turY
"Social Justice" = Injustice
Progressives are Oxy-morons
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZXKgl8turY
"Social Justice" = Injustice
Progressives are Oxy-morons
-
- Posts: 589
- Joined: 7/27/2012
- 14ers: 58 1
- Trip Reports (0)
Re: Wolf Restoration Plan Initial Draft
I am looking forward to seeing a wolf in the wilds of Colorado. But let's be clear, there is going to be conflict and a number of wolves will be shot in the end. And forget about the ones that enter Wyoming. It is what it is. But people need to be prepared for that.
Side note in regard to the reduced elk population. Is it just me or does it seem like there are more elk than ever in the transition zone between the foothills and plains in Boulder and Jefferson Counties. I'm seeing them more and more. Maybe they've figured out a lot of this land these days is Open Space with no or extremely limited hunting? IDK
Side note in regard to the reduced elk population. Is it just me or does it seem like there are more elk than ever in the transition zone between the foothills and plains in Boulder and Jefferson Counties. I'm seeing them more and more. Maybe they've figured out a lot of this land these days is Open Space with no or extremely limited hunting? IDK
Re: Wolf Restoration Plan Initial Draft
Nice to see some restoration of nature with wolves. We have to update the wolf exhibit at the nature center now, as it says they were hunted to extinction in CO (not the right term, but people read extinct). Same with Canadian lynx which have hung around. A guy I just talked to looking at it was afraid to encounter either.
It does seem like an abundance of elk in the urban corridor now. I think they were there before development. Good habitat, climate, and fewer predators and hunting. What's not to like if you're an elk? They may be bothered by summer heat, longer migration to higher elevations in summer.
It does seem like an abundance of elk in the urban corridor now. I think they were there before development. Good habitat, climate, and fewer predators and hunting. What's not to like if you're an elk? They may be bothered by summer heat, longer migration to higher elevations in summer.
http://www.listsofjohn.com/m/cougar
"If we don't change direction, we'll end up where we're going."
"Bushwhacking is like a box of chocolates - you never know what you're gonna get."
"Don't give up on your dreams, stay asleep"
"If we don't change direction, we'll end up where we're going."
"Bushwhacking is like a box of chocolates - you never know what you're gonna get."
"Don't give up on your dreams, stay asleep"
-
- Posts: 589
- Joined: 7/27/2012
- 14ers: 58 1
- Trip Reports (0)
Re: Wolf Restoration Plan Initial Draft
I think there was less elk when there was less development. I know that sounds weird. A lot of land in the areas I am talking about were overgrazed and of very poor quality. A lot of this land, albeit less of it, is now open space where cows have been removed are limited. Also, more conservation easements where grazing has been greatly reduced. More food and less chances of getting shot.cougar wrote: ↑Sat Dec 10, 2022 2:26 pm Nice to see some restoration of nature with wolves. We have to update the wolf exhibit at the nature center now, as it says they were hunted to extinction in CO (not the right term, but people read extinct). Same with Canadian lynx which have hung around. A guy I just talked to looking at it was afraid to encounter either.
It does seem like an abundance of elk in the urban corridor now. I think they were there before development. Good habitat, climate, and fewer predators and hunting. What's not to like if you're an elk? They may be bothered by summer heat, longer migration to higher elevations in summer.
There are many places where I now see elk where there wasn't before. Not just sightings, but not elk sign either. In the past few years, I have even seen them as far east as Niwot, Lafayette, Superior, etc. There was a huge bull at CU South even. They also had to open Rabbit Mtn north of Boulder to hunting because there were so many of them.
Also, a lot of wild turkey. Also more bobcats.
Re: Wolf Restoration Plan Initial Draft
I thought elk naturally roamed on the plains in some areas, pretty far east. I agree with seeing them more in the cities now. There's a herd in Loveland, and on Green Mtn in Lakewood. Barn owls have also extended their range due to human development. Geese, rabbits and raccoons also seem to thrive in cities.onebyone wrote: ↑Sat Dec 10, 2022 3:24 pmI think there was less elk when there was less development. I know that sounds weird. A lot of land in the areas I am talking about were overgrazed and of very poor quality. A lot of this land, albeit less of it, is now open space where cows have been removed are limited. Also, more conservation easements where grazing has been greatly reduced. More food and less chances of getting shot.cougar wrote: ↑Sat Dec 10, 2022 2:26 pm Nice to see some restoration of nature with wolves. We have to update the wolf exhibit at the nature center now, as it says they were hunted to extinction in CO (not the right term, but people read extinct). Same with Canadian lynx which have hung around. A guy I just talked to looking at it was afraid to encounter either.
It does seem like an abundance of elk in the urban corridor now. I think they were there before development. Good habitat, climate, and fewer predators and hunting. What's not to like if you're an elk? They may be bothered by summer heat, longer migration to higher elevations in summer.
There are many places where I now see elk where there wasn't before. Not just sightings, but not elk sign either. In the past few years, I have even seen them as far east as Niwot, Lafayette, Superior, etc. There was a huge bull at CU South even. They also had to open Rabbit Mtn north of Boulder to hunting because there were so many of them.
Also, a lot of wild turkey. Also more bobcats.
http://www.listsofjohn.com/m/cougar
"If we don't change direction, we'll end up where we're going."
"Bushwhacking is like a box of chocolates - you never know what you're gonna get."
"Don't give up on your dreams, stay asleep"
"If we don't change direction, we'll end up where we're going."
"Bushwhacking is like a box of chocolates - you never know what you're gonna get."
"Don't give up on your dreams, stay asleep"
-
- Posts: 589
- Joined: 7/27/2012
- 14ers: 58 1
- Trip Reports (0)
Re: Wolf Restoration Plan Initial Draft
Yup, they absolutely love the plains. They go high in the summer then start coming down in the fall and stay low until it gets hot, when they go high again. More or less. But there has to be food. And there has to be corridors. Of course I don't like all the development, but when I moved here more than 3 decades ago, there was so much open land. At night between Boulder and Denver, it was almost completely dark. But the land was in an awful state. Much of it way way over grazed. It was simply just not good habitat for elk. And other wildlife.cougar wrote: ↑Sat Dec 10, 2022 4:50 pmI thought elk naturally roamed on the plains in some areas, pretty far east. I agree with seeing them more in the cities now. There's a herd in Loveland, and on Green Mtn in Lakewood. Barn owls have also extended their range due to human development. Geese, rabbits and raccoons also seem to thrive in cities.onebyone wrote: ↑Sat Dec 10, 2022 3:24 pmI think there was less elk when there was less development. I know that sounds weird. A lot of land in the areas I am talking about were overgrazed and of very poor quality. A lot of this land, albeit less of it, is now open space where cows have been removed are limited. Also, more conservation easements where grazing has been greatly reduced. More food and less chances of getting shot.cougar wrote: ↑Sat Dec 10, 2022 2:26 pm Nice to see some restoration of nature with wolves. We have to update the wolf exhibit at the nature center now, as it says they were hunted to extinction in CO (not the right term, but people read extinct). Same with Canadian lynx which have hung around. A guy I just talked to looking at it was afraid to encounter either.
It does seem like an abundance of elk in the urban corridor now. I think they were there before development. Good habitat, climate, and fewer predators and hunting. What's not to like if you're an elk? They may be bothered by summer heat, longer migration to higher elevations in summer.
There are many places where I now see elk where there wasn't before. Not just sightings, but not elk sign either. In the past few years, I have even seen them as far east as Niwot, Lafayette, Superior, etc. There was a huge bull at CU South even. They also had to open Rabbit Mtn north of Boulder to hunting because there were so many of them.
Also, a lot of wild turkey. Also more bobcats.
If you look at a timeline of Open Space purchases over the last 50 years, it is pretty massive. For example, Boulder only created its Open Space program in like 1967ish. Instead of disconnected various parcels in the beginning years of these OS parcels, you are now seeing the parcels linked with much better corridors for wildlife. Elk can now travel from our national forests all the way down to the plains on almost entirely public lands.
It has been very interesting to watch. Now we even have moose. Not their habitat down on the plains, but the habitat and wildlife corridors are now solid enough that even moose can migrate pretty easily. Going to be fun watching where some these wolves will end up time to time. A also expect problems.