Mount Lindsey Closure

Information on current and past 14er closures, usually due to private property issues.
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spoony
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Re: Mount Lindsey Closure

Post by spoony »

Chicago Transplant wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 3:39 pm Isn't a mining claim just the rights to the minerals beneath the surface? Mining claimants do not own the surface. It is not the same as private property and does not have the same rights. So I don't think it actually qualifies as trespassing to walk on the surface, especially if that surface is on public lands. Regardless of what courts interpret "stand your ground" to mean, I don't think NYker was trespassing on Antero in the first place.

You can't mess with someone's claim or take the minerals, but can walk on it, hunt on it, even camp on it, just like any other public land unless they also own surface rights. I don't believe that to be the case on Antero, as far as I know Antero is public land with mining claims under it and you can walk on it just fine.
Not exactly...there are instances where the owner of a mining claim has exclusive rights to possession of the surface (not just the minerals). The safest bet would be to avoid crossing mining claims without permission from the owner.

This snippet gives a very high-level description of the main types of federal mining claims: https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/mining_claim
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nyker
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Re: Mount Lindsey Closure

Post by nyker »

This is bringing back all those fond of memories that morning!

One thing that might have exacerbated the miner's defensiveness / paranoia was the fact that I had an ice ax in my pack (which to the uninitiated might look like a mining pickaxe) and a headlamp ( could have looked like a miners headlamp) and could have indicated in his mind that I could be after some minerals. Who knows. It did make that summit feel extra special though.

Looking back that was around the time during the 2008/2009 financial crisis so perhaps economic hardship caused additional stress in that situation.
Above_Treeline
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Re: Mount Lindsey Closure

Post by Above_Treeline »

Scott P wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 12:16 pm
Above_Treeline wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 11:20 amCrazy people pointing a gun at you isn't a consequence. It might be more of a felony on their part.
If the property owner claims to feel threatened, they can point a gun at trespassers. The Make My Day Law only applies to home invasion, but the Stand Your Ground Law applies to property. It doesn't matter if the trespasser is armed or not either. The owner just has to claim that they felt threatened by the trespasser on their property.
Well, I don't think it's legal in TX. I'd really check the laws before doing something stupid like that. Someone who is in my yard is technically trespassing but I think if I go out and point a gun at them I would end up in more trouble than they did.

A friend of mine said something about jury duty involving cases about guns. I don't think it involved actual shootings, just stuff like this. Of course if the gun accidentally goes off and shoots someone you have big legal issues.
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greenonion
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Re: Mount Lindsey Closure

Post by greenonion »

Above_Treeline wrote: Sat Jan 21, 2023 9:43 am
Scott P wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 12:16 pm
Above_Treeline wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 11:20 amCrazy people pointing a gun at you isn't a consequence. It might be more of a felony on their part.
If the property owner claims to feel threatened, they can point a gun at trespassers. The Make My Day Law only applies to home invasion, but the Stand Your Ground Law applies to property. It doesn't matter if the trespasser is armed or not either. The owner just has to claim that they felt threatened by the trespasser on their property.
Well, I don't think it's legal in TX. I'd really check the laws before doing something stupid like that. Someone who is in my yard is technically trespassing but I think if I go out and point a gun at them I would end up in more trouble than they did.

A friend of mine said something about jury duty involving cases about guns. I don't think it involved actual shootings, just stuff like this. Of course if the gun accidentally goes off and shoots someone you have big legal issues.
There’s a whole lotta vagueness going on in those last comments. Including how a gun fires accidentally (can happen, but…. And only Alec Baldwin is a true expert there). Am not advocating one way or the other, just suggesting that “…said something about jury duty involving cases about guns. I don’t think it involved actual shootings, just stuff like this.”

Not meaning to be hyper critical, but what’s the point here if a constructive discussion is intended?
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Re: Mount Lindsey Closure

Post by Above_Treeline »

greenonion wrote: Sat Jan 21, 2023 10:10 am
Above_Treeline wrote: Sat Jan 21, 2023 9:43 am
Scott P wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 12:16 pm

If the property owner claims to feel threatened, they can point a gun at trespassers. The Make My Day Law only applies to home invasion, but the Stand Your Ground Law applies to property. It doesn't matter if the trespasser is armed or not either. The owner just has to claim that they felt threatened by the trespasser on their property.
Well, I don't think it's legal in TX. I'd really check the laws before doing something stupid like that. Someone who is in my yard is technically trespassing but I think if I go out and point a gun at them I would end up in more trouble than they did.

A friend of mine said something about jury duty involving cases about guns. I don't think it involved actual shootings, just stuff like this. Of course if the gun accidentally goes off and shoots someone you have big legal issues.
There’s a whole lotta vagueness going on in those last comments. Including how a gun fires accidentally (can happen, but…. And only Alec Baldwin is a true expert there). Am not advocating one way or the other, just suggesting that “…said something about jury duty involving cases about guns. I don’t think it involved actual shootings, just stuff like this.”

Not meaning to be hyper critical, but what’s the point here if a constructive discussion is intended?
I can ask him about his jury duty but my point is it's not a good idea to point guns at people over trespassing. If that's happening you are probably more of a victim of a crime. I might take a gun for trespassing, off in the woods but it's a pretty bad idea to point it at them threatening them imo. I doubt it's legal in TX. Or therefore Colo. I doubt going out in the yard to point a gun at someone and threaten them, even if they're trespassing and breaking the law, is legal. Even if it is legal in your area, accidental discharge can happen.

Scott mentioned that you can point a gun if you feel threatened, in TX you have broad rights to defend yourself actially using guns if you feel threatened, you or your property but if you go too far they can try you for murder. So you might get off given the law but its a lot to deal. Feeling threatened isn't necessarily a right to do everything. Probably varies a lot in different locales
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Dave B
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Re: Mount Lindsey Closure

Post by Dave B »

Above_Treeline wrote: Sat Jan 21, 2023 10:54 am I can ask him about his jury duty but my point is it's not a good idea to point guns at people over trespassing. If that's happening you are probably more of a victim of a crime. I might take a gun for trespassing, off in the woods but it's a pretty bad idea to point it at them threatening them imo. I doubt it's legal in TX. Or therefore Colo. I doubt going out in the yard to point a gun at someone and threaten them, even if trespassing, is legal. Even if it is legal in your area, accidental discharge is a thing.

Scott mentioned that you can do it if you feel threatened, in TX you have broad rights to defend yourself using guns if you feel threatened, you or your property but if you go too far they can try you for murder. So you might get off given the law but its a lot to deal.
I doubt the type to pull a gun are spending much time thinking about the legality of it, often because they figure they're within their rights. I used to work with a field crew for the USGS in Idaho. We were accessing BLM land for vegetation surveys (driving GSA vehicles) on a public road cutting through private property. One of the land owners saw us coming, drove out, blocked the road with his truck, and got out of his truck with a shotgun pointed at us, demanding to know what we were doing... a bunch of 20-something kids in a truck and this f**knut pulls a gun...

Anyways, nothing really happened, and our supervisor just shrugged it off and didn't even suggest contacting law enforcement. Even if we had, I doubt anything would have been done about it.
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Candace66
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Re: Mount Lindsey Closure

Post by Candace66 »

Back on topic... I'm still hoping this gets sorted out, and more important that access to Blanca Basin is opened up. [-o< I'd love to try that easier route up Little Bear. 8)
ltlFish99
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Re: Mount Lindsey Closure

Post by ltlFish99 »

Candace66 wrote: Sun Jan 22, 2023 10:18 am Back on topic... I'm still hoping this gets sorted out, and more important that access to Blanca Basin is opened up. [-o< I'd love to try that easier route up Little Bear. 8)
i went up little bear from blanca basin with friends from the CMC in the summer of 1988.
since the approach crossed private property, we contacted the property owners to request permission.
They were VERY friendly, and helped us with some good information on how yo get to the trailhead.
it was a fun way to summit little bear, and seemed less dangerous then the hourglass route.
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Re: Mount Lindsey Closure

Post by Candace66 »

ltlFish99 wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 1:32 pm
Candace66 wrote: Sun Jan 22, 2023 10:18 am Back on topic... I'm still hoping this gets sorted out, and more important that access to Blanca Basin is opened up. [-o< I'd love to try that easier route up Little Bear. 8)
i went up little bear from blanca basin with friends from the CMC in the summer of 1988.
since the approach crossed private property, we contacted the property owners to request permission.
They were VERY friendly, and helped us with some good information on how yo get to the trailhead.
it was a fun way to summit little bear, and seemed less dangerous then the hourglass route.
I found an online trip report for a more recent ascent of Little Bear via Blanca basin. It has since been taken down, but I had already saved it. The author clearly didn't have permission to do the climb. But it definitely sounded like a safer and technically easier route.
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Re: Mount Lindsey Closure

Post by docjohn »

I also first summited Little Bear with the CMC in 1974, permission granted through the club. The pack in was miserable due to hot steep scrubby first half. However the route over Mama Bear with the San Luis Valley fog rising was exquisite!
...let me remind you of the pilgrim who asked for an audience with the Dalai Lama.
He was told he must first spend five years in contemplation. After the five years, he was ushered into the Dalai Lama's presence, who said, 'Well, my son, what do you wish to know?' So the pilgrim said, 'I wish to know the meaning of life, father.'
And the Dalai Lama smiled and said, 'Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?'

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sfreytag
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Re: Mount Lindsey Closure

Post by sfreytag »

The landowner for Blanca Basin is the same as the landowner for Lindsey. It's Blanca/Trinchera Ranches. There are two separate ranches owned by conservationist Louis Bacon that total 172,000 acres. They are in the tourism/hunting/fishing business. So I'm sure if you booked a night or two, they would be happy to let you hike anywhere on their property.

https://trincheraranch.com/
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CaptainSuburbia
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Re: Mount Lindsey Closure

Post by CaptainSuburbia »

sfreytag wrote: Mon Feb 20, 2023 6:46 pm The landowner for Blanca Basin is the same as the landowner for Lindsey. It's Blanca/Trinchera Ranches. There are two separate ranches owned by conservationist Louis Bacon that total 172,000 acres. They are in the tourism/hunting/fishing business. So I'm sure if you booked a night or two, they would be happy to let you hike anywhere on their property.

https://trincheraranch.com/
Or do an fkt.
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