Tips for Physical Training

FAQ and threads for those just starting to hike the Colorado 14ers.
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Jorts
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Re: Tips for Physical Training

Post by Jorts »

Hmm. Think we have a different mindset of what consistent long slow distance looks like Justin. Some of my best days have been a couple hours or hours on end of Zone1 going into the mountains in the middle of nowhere whether by foot or by ski or by bike. That's essentially what Chris Fisher just did for weeks on end and what I'm pretty sure you seem to get into regularly.

Personally I find that far more enjoyable than throwing a medicine ball off a wall while hopping up and down on an overturned crate. But I'll shut up now. Taking it easy outside is dreadfully boring and dull compared to 20 minutes of sexy sweaty HIIT daily in a warehouse.
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justiner
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Re: Tips for Physical Training

Post by justiner »

I can't talk on behalf of Chris obviously, but Z1 - let alone Z2 is certainly not to me hiking 14ers with winter gear in snow. Even just hill walking in summer conditions at Z2 is a big ask - I have dial things WAY way down to stay in Z2, which is counterintuitive for sure. All the more harder at altitude.

I've actually found it's best that I'm just on a bike trainer where I can control my effort very careful to get the benefits of aerobic HR training. Getting ready for the Tour Divide for me was either riding the bike paths of Denver (flat) or riding on the rollers at home. Hours and hours and hours of it. Now I'm 15+lbs heavier ('cause: climbing), it's even harder to stay Z1/Z2, esp. while running.

But these are workouts I do every day, are also the ones that I feel more refreshed afterwards than before. That's so different than Crossfit-style workouts, it's no wonder to me that others think it doesn't seem like Z2 training is doing anything and is just a waste of time.

That does get pretty boring I'll have to admit, and I do have to focus on the goals in the far future. Crawl before you walk type of situation.
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espressoself
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Re: Tips for Physical Training

Post by espressoself »

I've never done HIIT, but most of my workouts used to consist of stair mill and incline treadmill in solid Z3 territory, just trying to crank out as many vertical feet as I could in an hour. I was aware of TFTNA/TFTUA and other sources that advised against this kind of training, but lower intensity stuff just didn't feel as good. There were improvements to my cardio fitness initially, but I definitely hit a plateau, and even started to decline at the end of the summer this last year. Heart rate started to creep up at the same intensity levels, started to become more easily fatigued with the same workouts.

Then I decided I wanted to start training for a marathon this last fall and reluctantly entered into the world of long, boring, never-ending Z2 workouts. Doing long 13-18 mile runs (especially when I have to do them on the treadmill) sucks, but man have they made a difference. My running pace is faster, HR stays lower, energy level throughout stays more consistent. Probably the most annoying thing is that Strava seems to think my overall fitness has declined because my HR keeps getting lower at the same speed/duration/mileage.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing how this all translates to mountain endurance this summer. If nothing else, I've been able to maintain a steady diet of so many carbs and ice cream, which makes the whole endeavor worthy in itself.
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Re: Tips for Physical Training

Post by justiner »

espressoself wrote: Fri Mar 31, 2023 9:04 am Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing how this all translates to mountain endurance this summer. If nothing else, I've been able to maintain a steady diet of so many carbs and ice cream, which makes the whole endeavor worthy in itself.
Good luck! I'd be interested too. Endurance improvements take time, and come on slowly. Small gains made yearly, with results only seen after a few months of consistent work.
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Re: Tips for Physical Training

Post by supranihilest »

Training for the New Alpinism has been mentioned numerous times in this thread and it's a great resource. Years ago when training for Aconcagua I created a spreadsheet that faithfully follows the program as laid out in the book. Some may find it a little too faithful, but it at least gives one an idea of how the program works and what it takes to train for big objectives. I personally don't follow the program anymore, as I'm not training for anything particularly big, but when I was it worked great. Caveats are that I ended up doing a lot more volume (almost impossible to get out into the mountains and accomplish anything with an hour long Z1 activity, for example) and, like Justin and others, found that I had to dial way down for the Z1 and Z2 training. I found that slow and boring - the word plodding comes to mind. The specific portion of training is too specific to the individual and the objective which is why that section is blank. Feel free to copy the spreadsheet and edit it. Cell T2 is what you should manually set and the entire rest of the spreadsheet follows.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
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Re: Tips for Physical Training

Post by XterraRob »

The secret to hiking, skiing, and climbing is a clear head and a strong core. Decline crunches for days.
Last edited by XterraRob on Sat Apr 01, 2023 8:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tips for Physical Training

Post by mtree »

XterraRob wrote: Fri Mar 31, 2023 12:47 pm The secret to hiking, skiing, ans climbing is a clear head and a strong core. Decline crunches for days.
Agree 100%
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Jorts
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Re: Tips for Physical Training

Post by Jorts »

justiner wrote: Fri Mar 31, 2023 11:24 am Endurance improvements take time, and come on slowly. Small gains made yearly, with results only seen after a few months of consistent work.
So true. Nudging up aerobic threshold takes consistency over years and decades and expresses itself as incremental gains in low end speed and stamina. Whereas VO2max and lactate threshold can get bumped up in weeks to months. Guess that's the appeal of HIIT... instantaneous gains. Unfortunately those come with diminishing returns.

Aerobic threshold can be improved for years essentially without limit.
Anaerobic threshold has genetic limits and is quite trainable to its upper limit over less time (both shorter workouts and shorter time frames of execution and consistency).

As your aerobic threshold improves it bumps closer and closer to your anaerobic threshold. Whereas someone untrained may have an Aet ~60% of max heartrate, a really well trained person could be pushing close to 80%. And this speaks to what supranihilest said:
supranihilest wrote: Fri Mar 31, 2023 12:07 pm Caveats are that I ended up doing a lot more volume (almost impossible to get out into the mountains and accomplish anything with an hour long Z1 activity, for example) and, like Justin and others, found that I had to dial way down for the Z1 and Z2 training.
Bottom line: If one has high aerobic threshold, their Zone 2 would be about the equivalent to Zone 3 for someone who is aerobically deficient. So the well trained person could move through mountains effortlessly without tiring while the "untrained" person who only has a history of HIIT would become exhausted after about an hour. It's also interesting that zone 3 and above work is detrimental to aerobic gains and threshold. It's good in small doses but that's about it. There are really no shortcuts. Going faster won't get you fitter. Only slowing down will and speeding up slowly over time.

I'm not familiar with training for the uphill athlete mentioned on this thread... but others have told me this general principle is a big part of it.
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Re: Tips for Physical Training

Post by timisimaginary »

Dave B wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 12:50 pm
estherozix wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 4:47 am While HIIT workouts may be all the rage, I agree that long and slow endurance training is the way to go for building mountain endurance. Building up to an hour-long workout 3-4 times a week, and incorporating leg strengthening exercises and stretching, can make a big difference in your ability to conquer a 14er.
What if I want to just mildly dominate a 14er?
i'd settle for having a mutually respectful relationship with a 14er marked by kindness and honesty.
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Re: Tips for Physical Training

Post by Skybluesky »

I've been stalking for a bit and pretty much read thru each post on this thread. My wife and I visited the Morrsion area in June and I was completely smitten. I did alot(alot!) of driving thru Arapaho area, Mt. Evans, Georgetown etc and fell in love. I was not prepared for solo hiking and she is not a hiker so I have been looking for a reason to come back out and get on the trail. I have a work trip to Denver coming up in September...I am going to come out solo a few days early and would like to hit two peaks, one Saturday and one Sunday, watch a show on Monday night then meet my work people at the airport and resume the mundane work travel routine. I am 43, from Kentucky and walk a ton, hike moderately and am in decent "dad" shape(5'10" 195 construction background, enjoys Miller Lite and potato chips). I have hiked almost everything at the Red River Gorge here in Ky. RRG trails can be harsh...tons of rocks, roots and switchbacks and very steep footing. The difference maker is obviously altitude. I have done 8 miles or more, approx. 2,500 ft of gain on these types of trails with a 50 pound pack numerous times. The routes I was considering are easier( Beirstadt and Grays & Torreys). I trust my endurance and my feet and I am willing to do several conditioning hikes here at home to prepare. I am stuck somewhere between "you're overthinking the difficulty" and "you're too fat, stay at home". Thoughts on my experiences here in Ky stacking up to those two peaks? Is hitting these peaks solo first time out irresponsible? For the record when we visited last I can't remember feeling the altitude at all but we didn't do anything too strenuous.
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Re: Tips for Physical Training

Post by two lunches »

LURE wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 1:20 pm
two lunches wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 11:44 am trying something new this year- i've been training for a race in may. interested to see how this impacts hiking- will report back
what race?

first time i did quad rock, i did rather well, but jacked my IT band up for the rest of the summer.

don't push through pain, was the lesson there.
i did the Colfax Relay with some folks from work last year and we had such a good time that most of our team has graduated to running the Half this year. having never run more than 10 miles, the full marathon seemed like a big ask but training has been (surprisingly) fun and easy to intersperse with ski days. quad rock 25 looks awesome. maybe for 2024

ice baths, hot compresses, theragun, vitamin i and yoga have kept injuries at bay (so far). oh- and rest days. the real MVP
justiner wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 1:32 pm just realize that if you hike faster you'll hike farther and you may need three lunches
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Re: Tips for Physical Training

Post by TomPierce »

Skybluesky wrote: Mon Apr 03, 2023 11:42 am I've been stalking for a bit and pretty much read thru each post on this thread. My wife and I visited the Morrsion area in June and I was completely smitten. I did alot(alot!) of driving thru Arapaho area, Mt. Evans, Georgetown etc and fell in love. I was not prepared for solo hiking and she is not a hiker so I have been looking for a reason to come back out and get on the trail. I have a work trip to Denver coming up in September...I am going to come out solo a few days early and would like to hit two peaks, one Saturday and one Sunday, watch a show on Monday night then meet my work people at the airport and resume the mundane work travel routine. I am 43, from Kentucky and walk a ton, hike moderately and am in decent "dad" shape(5'10" 195 construction background, enjoys Miller Lite and potato chips). I have hiked almost everything at the Red River Gorge here in Ky. RRG trails can be harsh...tons of rocks, roots and switchbacks and very steep footing. The difference maker is obviously altitude. I have done 8 miles or more, approx. 2,500 ft of gain on these types of trails with a 50 pound pack numerous times. The routes I was considering are easier( Beirstadt and Grays & Torreys). I trust my endurance and my feet and I am willing to do several conditioning hikes here at home to prepare. I am stuck somewhere between "you're overthinking the difficulty" and "you're too fat, stay at home". Thoughts on my experiences here in Ky stacking up to those two peaks? Is hitting these peaks solo first time out irresponsible? For the record when we visited last I can't remember feeling the altitude at all but we didn't do anything too strenuous.
Welcome to Colorado hiking! I think your goals sound reasonable, esp in September. If you go up on a weekend you won't really be solo anyway. Just train as best you can and enjoy the experience. If you get really uncomfortable you can always turn back and try again later. Good luck!

-Tom
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