Colorado 14ers vs the Alps

Colorado peak questions, condition requests and other info.
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Scott P
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Re: Colorado 14ers vs the Alps

Post by Scott P »

skyrme17 wrote: Fri May 05, 2023 8:19 pm Is there a counterpart to 14ers.com for the Alps? A site with a lot of detailed information for all the peaks in one place, along with an expert and engaged community?
None that I know of, though there are world wide sites, such as the one pointed out

The Alps cover a much larger area than the Colorado 14ers and cover more than 85,000 square miles in seven countries with many different languages spoken.

Summitpost has a lot of info on the Alps (but more ads than it used to) and use to have a really active European message board, but not so much anymore. The bets for the mountains is still there though.
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Re: Colorado 14ers vs the Alps

Post by pvnisher »

After growing up in Colorado I thought I knew what mountains were.
Then I went to the cascades. Huge glaciers, and I was like, ok, these are mountains.
Then I went to the Alps. Holy crap. So pointy, rivers of ice. Ok, these are mountains.

Still waiting to go to Himalayas...
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Re: Colorado 14ers vs the Alps

Post by XterraRob »

pvnisher wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 8:03 am After growing up in Colorado I thought I knew what mountains were.
Then I went to the cascades. Huge glaciers, and I was like, ok, these are mountains.
Then I went to the Alps. Holy crap. So pointy, rivers of ice. Ok, these are mountains.

Still waiting to go to Himalayas...
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Re: Colorado 14ers vs the Alps

Post by Boggy B »

Having climbed plenty of "real mountains," I can say definitively that the CO San Juans are the best.
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Re: Colorado 14ers vs the Alps

Post by Scott P »

pvnisher wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 8:03 am Still waiting to go to Himalayas...
Just do it. It takes time though. Unless you do an 8000er or something, it's cheap too (besides the plane ticket!). Back when I had the winters (i.e. before kids), I figured that even with the plane ticket it was cheaper to spend the winter there than to stay in the US.
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Re: Colorado 14ers vs the Alps

Post by Above_Treeline »

Lonni wrote: Mon May 01, 2023 4:25 am Coming to CO in early June and would like to attack a few 14ers closest to Denver. From Switzerland so used to the mountains and hiking, but wondering what are the main differences and things we should be thinking about in Colorado? Doing 1500m/5000ft uphill is no issue fitness wise (here), but am aware your mountains are higher so altitude might be an issue? Anything else? Here 14er territory requires serious gear, mountainering experience and ropes, but reading the forums and looking at pics some of the 14ers are more like hikes. Looking for ideas for hikes rather than climbing (incl ropes etc)
You need clearance and sometimes 4wd to get to many of the trailheads. Either that or you have to park at 2wd parking and hike further. Some marked 4wd I think I could get to in 2wd pickup having clearance. One marked more 2wd really could have used clearance. Not sure if you have that in Europe. The ski areas top out around 12k feet maybe a bit more and a lot of people go. Just depends on the person as far as if it bothers you.

Grays and Torreys near Denver, might need clearance or extra hiking 2wd haven't done it yet. Can get there from Loveland pass (paved 2wd) too. Bierstadt apparently paved TH access. Mt Evans you can drive to the top pretty much. If you can go to Leadville/buena Vista area there's lots elbert is highest Sherman relatively easy. Huron pretty easy extra 2 MI from 2wd. Yale a bit if scrambling on top but paved 2wd access. Lots of others.

Early June sounds early, I don't have a lot of experience on Colo then but in Montana several years ago some of the roads closed til July. Lower but further north, probably late that year. Arapahoe basin might have skiing early June can apparently be hood in may
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Re: Colorado 14ers vs the Alps

Post by skyrme17 »

Scott P wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 6:20 am
skyrme17 wrote: Fri May 05, 2023 8:19 pm Is there a counterpart to 14ers.com for the Alps? A site with a lot of detailed information for all the peaks in one place, along with an expert and engaged community?
None that I know of, though there are world wide sites, such as the one pointed out

The Alps cover a much larger area than the Colorado 14ers and cover more than 85,000 square miles in seven countries with many different languages spoken.

Summitpost has a lot of info on the Alps (but more ads than it used to) and use to have a really active European message board, but not so much anymore. The bets for the mountains is still there though.
The Alps may cover a large area, but I'm not sure if they cover a larger area at comparable elevation. The high elevation Alps are concentrated in/around Switzerland and the borders with France and Italy. Switzerland has an area of 15,940 sq miles, compared to Colorado which is 104,000 sq miles (yes Colorado is no all 14ers, but still a good point of comparison). There is no counterpart for the Alps, or other mountain ranges, as far as I know. In Europe I would find myself calling the local SAR office to ask if the trailhead is accessible by car.

The point I was trying to make is that this site is very special, with a very engaged and inspirational community from Colorado and elsewhere. I for one have used a lot of information from this site not only for 14ers, but mountains elsewhere, as some of you generously post about. The fact that the site is run on a volunteer basis is something very, very notable as well!
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Re: Colorado 14ers vs the Alps

Post by jfm3 »

I've done two different trips to the Swiss Alps, and am planning a trip to Chamonix in August, and these two webpages have been very useful in planning:

https://elevation.alpsinsight.com/

https://runthealps.com/

AlpsInsight is probably the closest equivalent I've found to 14ers.com for the Alps. It's run by Dan Patitucci, an American living in Interlaken. Many of the main tourist/town webpages for places like Interlaken, Wengen, Chamonix, Zermatt, etc. have sections describing trails and peak access.
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Re: Colorado 14ers vs the Alps

Post by ECF55 »

skyrme17 wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 3:23 pm The Alps may cover a large area, but I'm not sure if they cover a larger area at comparable elevation. The high elevation Alps are concentrated in/around Switzerland and the borders with France and Italy. Switzerland has an area of 15,940 sq miles, compared to Colorado which is 104,000 sq miles (yes Colorado is no all 14ers, but still a good point of comparison).
I don't know how much there is to add to this conversation, but to state the obvious: The Alps are are not a small mountain range!

Yes, as continental collision mountain ranges (i.e., convergent boundary orogenies) go, the Alps are a small, relatively compact range. The Himalayan-Hindu Kush ranges dwarf it in size.

But when comparing the Alps to the Colorado Rockies, there are some very obvious differences between the two:
- To start, the Alps form a very high and deeply dissected barrier between Italy and France/Germany. This is a vast area that would stretch continuously over Utah and Colorado with a depth greater than the San Juans. (Compare the maps below)
- The relief also feels much more dramatic in the Alps than most of the Colorado ranges, with its steeper slopes and jagged peaks that really catch the eye. This exaggerated relief probably has to do with (a) high rates of mountain uplift and (b) a much lower elevation "floor" on both sides of the range. For example, did you know that Geneva is only at 1300ft elevation, but Mont Blanc reaches 15,774ft and is only 45 miles away?! On the other hand, all of Colorado has been regionally uplifted in the last several million years, so one finds a multitude of high elevation peaks but only moderate-to-decent prominence (Buena Vista 8000ft and Mt Yale 14,199ft separated by 10 miles). Total 14er counts go to Colorado (58!) vs. the Alps (9, including two 15ers).
- Finally, the Alps don't have the intermontane basins that you find in Colorado (e.g., South Park) that break up the mountains into distinct ranges. The Alps feel like a contiguous block of rugged peaks that are separated only by deeply dissecting glacial valleys that overlie larger scale strike-slip transform faults that cut across the range.

Of the US ranges that feel most similar to the Alps, I would have to point to the North Cascades. That range had a similar ruggedness and exaggerated landscape, as well as a depth that felt impenetrable. North Cascades also have much less infrastructure than Austria/Switzerland or Colorado, which makes it feel much more wild.

Regardless, this isn't a measuring contest. The Alps and the Colorado Rockies are both near and dear to my heart and I would heartily recommend spending time in both. The beer isn't too bad, either.
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Re: Colorado 14ers vs the Alps

Post by skyrme17 »

ECF55 wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 8:31 pm
skyrme17 wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 3:23 pm The Alps may cover a large area, but I'm not sure if they cover a larger area at comparable elevation. The high elevation Alps are concentrated in/around Switzerland and the borders with France and Italy. Switzerland has an area of 15,940 sq miles, compared to Colorado which is 104,000 sq miles (yes Colorado is no all 14ers, but still a good point of comparison).
I don't know how much there is to add to this conversation, but to state the obvious: The Alps are are not a small mountain range!

Yes, as continental collision mountain ranges (i.e., convergent boundary orogenies) go, the Alps are a small, relatively compact range. The Himalayan-Hindu Kush ranges dwarf it in size.

But when comparing the Alps to the Colorado Rockies, there are some very obvious differences between the two:
- To start, the Alps form a very high and deeply dissected barrier between Italy and France/Germany. This is a vast area that would stretch continuously over Utah and Colorado with a depth greater than the San Juans. (Compare the maps below)
- The relief also feels much more dramatic in the Alps than most of the Colorado ranges, with its steeper slopes and jagged peaks that really catch the eye. This exaggerated relief probably has to do with (a) high rates of mountain uplift and (b) a much lower elevation "floor" on both sides of the range. For example, did you know that Geneva is only at 1300ft elevation, but Mont Blanc reaches 15,774ft and is only 45 miles away?! On the other hand, all of Colorado has been regionally uplifted in the last several million years, so one finds a multitude of high elevation peaks but only moderate-to-decent prominence (Buena Vista 8000ft and Mt Yale 14,199ft separated by 10 miles). Total 14er counts go to Colorado (58!) vs. the Alps (9, including two 15ers).
- Finally, the Alps don't have the intermontane basins that you find in Colorado (e.g., South Park) that break up the mountains into distinct ranges. The Alps feel like a contiguous block of rugged peaks that are separated only by deeply dissecting glacial valleys that overlie larger scale strike-slip transform faults that cut across the range.

Of the US ranges that feel most similar to the Alps, I would have to point to the North Cascades. That range had a similar ruggedness and exaggerated landscape, as well as a depth that felt impenetrable. North Cascades also have much less infrastructure than Austria/Switzerland or Colorado, which makes it feel much more wild.

Regardless, this isn't a measuring contest. The Alps and the Colorado Rockies are both near and dear to my heart and I would heartily recommend spending time in both. The beer isn't too bad, either.
My initial question was if there is a counterpart to the 14ers.com for the Alps, where people can find info on trails, peak and trailhead conditions etc... There simply isn't, as far as we can tell! An argument was made that the Alps stretch over seven countries. Perhaps legitimate, prima facie, but not quite. They don't stretch over that large area to break e.g. (many) language barriers, but that's secondary. In the end it boils down to an engaged community, something this site, and discussion eminently confirms. We should celebrate and support it!
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