This argument is irrelevant. There is no way to know how many peeps have hiked Culebra.hokiehead wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 8:32 ambecause there are people who climbed Culebra but didn't climb all the other 53 ranked 14ers. I feel I might be missing a point you're trying to make.two lunches wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 8:30 amhow can the number of finishers be lower than the Culebra count? someone who claims to be an "ABC finisher" is not a 14er finisher. period.
How many finishers...really?
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Re: How many finishers...really?
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Re: How many finishers...really?
Some of the peaks that people struggle to get 3000' from the standard summer routes are 3000' in winter due to road closures. I guess it still sucks to walk a road, but not as much as it does to walk a dry road with cars passing you
Bierstadt: Guanella winter trailhead elevation: ~10850'
Sherman: Iowa Gulch winter trailhead elevation: ~11,000'
Democrat/Lincoln/Bross: Paris Mill winter trailhead elevation: ~11,000' (though they seem to plow to 11,400+ now)
Parking at Montgomery Reservoir (Lincoln Amphitheater or Democrat North Ridge is 3k) for summer routes gets you there too, Bross is impractical to get 3k in summer

Bierstadt: Guanella winter trailhead elevation: ~10850'
Sherman: Iowa Gulch winter trailhead elevation: ~11,000'
Democrat/Lincoln/Bross: Paris Mill winter trailhead elevation: ~11,000' (though they seem to plow to 11,400+ now)
Parking at Montgomery Reservoir (Lincoln Amphitheater or Democrat North Ridge is 3k) for summer routes gets you there too, Bross is impractical to get 3k in summer
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Re: How many finishers...really?
I agree with what you are saying. I think that there is a difference between stopping at the bottom of the summit block of Sunlight and touching the very top of the top rock (but not standing on it).hokiehead wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2024 7:51 am I have a few distinct, but related, thoughts on this. It's a beautiful pedantic discussion.![]()
1. to the above comments about gatekeeping and being secure in one's own accomplishments... absolutely.
2. I wouldn't dispute if someone considered Sunlight to be 'finished' or to have "achieved their goal" by touching the bottom of the summit block. For that matter, I wouldn't dispute if you call it a summit if you drive up Pikes or Blue Sky and walk over to the high point from the lot. I don't care if you call yourself a finisher having done all three of the above. Just be honest about how you did it. Don't claim, or imply, that you gained 3k' on all your summits if you didn't. Don't claim, or imply, that you stood on a summit if you touched a point 4' lower with your hand. Don't claim, or imply, that you're a "Colorado 14er finisher" if you skip Culebra.
3. one of the aspects of mountaineering that I love is the lack of a rulebook and governing body that would define these things. Mountaineering can mean very different things for different people. I'll focus on my standards and my lists and encourage you to focus on yours.
4. as we're using the English language here, it is worth calibrating on whether the use of the terms "summit" and "finish" are aligned with common definitions of those terms. 'summit' (noun) is usually defined as the highest natural point of the mountain; 'summit' (verb) is usually defined as reaching that point. it's fair to question if the word is being used correctly by saying "I reached the summit of Sunlight by touching the base of the block". But 'finish' allows for more subjectivity. That person could, correctly, say that they "finished Sunlight" or "achieved their intended goal on Sunlight".
Based on the common definitions of summit, I think the person who drove to the Pikes parking area and walked over to the high point has a stronger claim of "summitting" a 14er than the person who hiked from Purgatory and climbed to the landing below the summit block of Sunlight. No question the latter person did something a lot harder though.
To me those are different things. I suppose someone else could say that touching the top and standing on the top are two different things.
To each his own though. If someone has been to the "real" summit of the 54 or 56 or 58 Fourteeners under their own power and the only thing lacking is the summit block of Sunlight, that is still a great accomplishment. If they call themselves a finisher, no problem to me.
(Personally I thought the summit block on Sunlight was vastly overrated, although as you may guess I didn't stand on the top boulder. To me the V slot on Sneffels, which I believe rates a 2+, was more unnerving. And both pale in comparison to the Knife Edge on Cap.)
Sean Nunn
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Re: How many finishers...really?
Let’s say, for the sake of argument, someone is pursuing a record - like the winter FKT for the 14ers - where the summit block rock could be icy or snowy.
Is tapping the top of Sunlight with the hand acceptable? FWIW, Fisher told me he scooted to the top.
Is tapping the top of Sunlight with the hand acceptable? FWIW, Fisher told me he scooted to the top.
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Re: How many finishers...really?
My opinion: touching the top ROCK, yes.
Stopping 20ish feet below the summit (below the series of large boulders), no.
Sean Nunn
Peculiar, MO
"Thy righteousness is like the great mountains."
--Psalm 36:6
--Psalm 36:6
Re: How many finishers...really?
Apparently so, at least according to Cave Dog:
This is under Rule 1: The Colorado Rule, so you don't even need to read too far down the page, although if you are in need of procrastination material, it's got plenty. Worth noting, however, that in the following sentence, he says: "That includes jumping over to the summit block of Sunlight. The top is the top." I personally would imagine you wouldn't need to jump if you were able to reach over and touch it, but I'm short, so that wouldn't have been a viable option for me anyway. And while I did crawl up to the very tippy top (while roped and guided), I had to settle for kneeling on it, because no way in hell was I testing my already-known lousy sense of balance standing that close to that large of a vertical drop.Further, one must set some portion of their body on the top of the mountain. (Emphasis mine)
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Re: How many finishers...really?
One must always leave some DNA on the top of the mountain. For the glory of life, ya know...HikesInGeologicTime wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 4:04 pm Apparently so, at least according to Cave Dog:Further, one must set some portion of their body on the top of the mountain. (Emphasis mine)
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Re: How many finishers...really?
I tend to agree with this. I have Roach’s 1999 edition of “Colorado 14ers - from hikes to climbs”. While I earlier referenced him as being “generally forgiving” towards the Sunlight block, he does state very clearly that this area 30 feet below the summit block is NOT the summit. So he clearly has a standard that one has to at least get into the vicinity of the final block. I think to some extent we need to defer to the pro’s in the absence of a consensus. This would seem reasonable then. If you at least touch the summit block it’s good. Any less, probably not.
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Re: How many finishers...really?
i'll take "things i didn't even consider" for $800, alexhokiehead wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 8:32 ambecause there are people who climbed Culebra but didn't climb all the other 53 ranked 14ers. I feel I might be missing a point you're trying to make.two lunches wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 8:30 amhow can the number of finishers be lower than the Culebra count? someone who claims to be an "ABC finisher" is not a 14er finisher. period.
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Re: How many finishers...really?
What ever happened to HYOH? Anyone who claims they hiked one or all 14ers should be given their due. There is no arbitrary tribunal that gets to decide otherwise.
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Re: How many finishers...really?
One of our contestants is exactly right!
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Re: How many finishers...really?
Are we still talking about getting close to a summit, but not actually reaching it?
I would think it shows more character (to whomever, probably just to oneself) to admit to not reaching the summit, then working towards learning how to improve upon oneself to make the summit on a future trip, or just sitting with the fact that it wasn't meant to be for reasons outside of one's control.
Failure is a part of the path towards success. If we never admit to our shortcomings, we never move past them. The more audacious my trips become, the more I've failed at trying to do 'em!
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