Colorado Wolves Reintroduction

[Cygnus X1]

nunns - 3.1 million votes were cast on Prop 114 and it passed by approximately 57k votes. CO has 64 counties. Prop 114 passed in 13 counties and failed in 51 counties. The measure received approximately 193,000 more "Yes" than "No" votes in Denver (+123k) and Boulder (+69k) counties. Link to the results:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Co ... sition_114

[Wentzl]

This line from the article sums it up pretty well:

Most people in the counties with the strongest support for Proposition 114 — Boulder with 68% and Denver with 66% — probably won’t encounter a wolf

[nunns]

OK, got it now. Thanks.

Sean Nunn

[onebyone]

Ironically killing wolves is likely only to increase livestock deaths. Wolves do not typically hunt livestock unless something in their pack is thrown out of balance (like one of pack being shot).

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/artic ... ne.0113505

It is going to be interesting to see if apex predators like wolves can coexist with humans in the Colorado we have today.

I think the wolves can do it. It is going to be interesting to see if humans can coexist with apex predators like wolves in the Colorado we have today.

Sure. They have to kill to survive and kill regularly. If you don't see how this is going to cause conflict then I don't know what to say. I'm pro wolf, but I'm also based in reality.

[nyker]

Guess it also will depend on the reimbursement amounts/process for rancher/farm owners for any wolf-killed livestock and if (i) the value reimbursed is fair/market replacement value and (ii) such claims are legit and not fraudulent; i.e. someone trying to get reimbursed for a roadkill or otherwise sick animal that was euthanized to try and pass it off as a wolf-kill to make money from the program.

[interloper]

This line from the article sums it up pretty well:

Most people in the counties with the strongest support for Proposition 114 — Boulder with 68% and Denver with 66% — probably won’t encounter a wolf

Personally I think the wolves should also be reintroduced at the Pearl Street Mall and LoDo. If they love the wolves so much, let them roam around there.

I'm not against wolves being in Colorado, especially since they were returning here naturally anyway. I'm against letting the Denver Metro area dictate how the rest of the state lives. If CPW, the NPS, or the National Forest or BLM all were vocally advocating for this, that would be one thing. But letting a bunch of urbanites and suburbanites and special interest groups 150+ miles away set policies for rural parts of the state that they and their livelihoods most likely will never be impacted by is asinine. This should never have been a ballot initiative in the first place.

One can argue all they want about how this is restoring a natural balance to the ecosystem in Colorado, but the fact is as long as humans continue to exist here, a truly natural balance can never be achieved. This isn't Wyoming. This isn't Montana. Our state is far more urban and is going to continue to become even more-so as long as developers and local governments continue to collude to squeeze every last drop of water out of the mountains and into tract houses and strip malls along I-25. There are bound to be human/wolf conflicts eventually. And dollars to doughnuts, as soon as enough of those same voters have negative encounters with wolves while they're weekending in the mountains, eventually they're going to start complaining about needing to have the wolf population curtailed.

[headsizeburrito]

Welcome to the imperfect reality of democracy? Wyoming and Delaware shouldn't have the same number of US Senators as California or Texas, but here we are. Political boundaries have to be drawn somewhere, urban/rural divides exist in every state, and we are all prisoners of history. The vote on reintroduction only served as political cover for what should have been done anyway as I said earlier.

You can't say most people will never see a wolf yet vote for them and at the same time say we will get overrun by wolves and those same people will regret their vote.

I should probably just stay out of this thread...

[interloper]

You can't say most people will never see a wolf yet vote for them and at the same time say we will get overrun by wolves and those same people will regret their vote.

I didn't say the state would be overrun with wolves. Most people probably won't encounter a wolf, but if the wolf population takes off and their range begins pushing east-ward, eventually there will be encounters with some of the same people who voted for this. How are these incompatible statements?

[nyker]

This line from the article sums it up pretty well:

Most people in the counties with the strongest support for Proposition 114 — Boulder with 68% and Denver with 66% — probably won’t encounter a wolf

Personally I think the wolves should also be reintroduced at the Pearl Street Mall and LoDo. If they love the wolves so much, let them roam around there.

I'm not against wolves being in Colorado, especially since they were returning here naturally anyway. I'm against letting the Denver Metro area dictate how the rest of the state lives. If CPW, the NPS, or the National Forest or BLM all were vocally advocating for this, that would be one thing. But letting a bunch of urbanites and suburbanites and special interest groups 150+ miles away set policies for rural parts of the state that they and their livelihoods most likely will never be impacted by is asinine. This should never have been a ballot initiative in the first place.

One can argue all they want about how this is restoring a natural balance to the ecosystem in Colorado, but the fact is as long as humans continue to exist here, a truly natural balance can never be achieved. This isn't Wyoming. This isn't Montana. Our state is far more urban and is going to continue to become even more-so as long as developers and local governments continue to collude to squeeze every last drop of water out of the mountains and into tract houses and strip malls along I-25. There are bound to be human/wolf conflicts eventually. And dollars to doughnuts, as soon as enough of those same voters have negative encounters with wolves while they're weekending in the mountains, eventually they're going to start complaining about needing to have the wolf population curtailed.

Same issue in NY state (as well across the US, as urbanization increases), where ~70% of the residents live in 5-6 of the smallest, though most densely populated counties of the 62 counties in NY where those downstate counties draw up the laws for the remainder of the state to live, with some exceptions.
The wolf reintroduction issue has been discussed in NY also, but would largely assume 99% of those living downstate could/would not be able to contribute anything worthwhile to the effort though have a larger influence in Albany than the folks living in rural NY on the ground where such an introduction could happen.
A hunter in the area shot what he thought was a coyote about a year ago...it was 85lbs...now that could be three coyotes. it was a wolf of course, not sure how anyone could mistake that for a coyote even through a scope...but it started raising the reintroduction question again with many of the same issues above.

[interloper]

Same issue in NY state (as well across the US, as urbanization increases), where ~70% of the residents live in 5-6 of the smallest, though most densely populated counties of the 62 counties in NY where those downstate counties draw up the laws for the remainder of the state to live, with some exceptions.
The wolf reintroduction issue has been discussed in NY also, but would largely assume 99% of those living downstate could/would not be able to contribute anything worthwhile to the effort though have a larger influence in Albany than the folks living in rural NY on the ground where such an introduction could happen.
A hunter in the area shot what he thought was a coyote about a year ago...it was 85lbs...now that could be three coyotes. it was a wolf of course, not sure how anyone could mistake that for a coyote even through a scope...but it started raising the reintroduction question again with many of the same issues above.

I wasn't even aware of a similar issue in New York. That's wild to me! I think this is why I'm fine with wolves naturally re-populating Colorado in their own way and on their own time and then having the state setup a management plan in response to that as needed, as opposed to a forced introduction on a timeline set by voters who shouldn't be setting this policy in the first place.

Regardless, it's happening. Hopefully the negative impacts will be minimal, but I'm skeptical given a long enough time horizon.

[thetoddman]

This line from the article sums it up pretty well:

Most people in the counties with the strongest support for Proposition 114 — Boulder with 68% and Denver with 66% — probably won’t encounter a wolf

Personally I think the wolves should also be reintroduced at the Pearl Street Mall and LoDo. If they love the wolves so much, let them roam around there.

I'm not against wolves being in Colorado, especially since they were returning here naturally anyway. I'm against letting the Denver Metro area dictate how the rest of the state lives. If CPW, the NPS, or the National Forest or BLM all were vocally advocating for this, that would be one thing. But letting a bunch of urbanites and suburbanites and special interest groups 150+ miles away set policies for rural parts of the state that they and their livelihoods most likely will never be impacted by is asinine. This should never have been a ballot initiative in the first place.

Credible and reliable sources claim to have evidence of unprecedented voter fraud in Boulder and Denver Counties during that election, with hundreds of thousands of "No" votes cast on Proposition 114 being tossed out by radical election officials. Just over a month from now, January 6th will be here, so let's gather at the State capitol to peacefully protest this stolen election on behalf of the zillions of ranchers across the state. Make Rural Colorado Great Again!

[interloper]

Credible and reliable sources claim to have evidence of unprecedented voter fraud in Boulder and Denver Counties during that election, with hundreds of thousands of "No" votes cast on Proposition 114 being tossed out by radical election officials. Just over a month from now, January 6th will be here, so let's gather at the State capitol to peacefully protest this stolen election on behalf of the zillions of ranchers across the state. Make Rural Colorado Great Again!

If you knew me at all you would know how ridiculous that all sounds, but I guess I can't blame you since you don't know me. I'm not conservative. I'm not a rancher. I'm not a hunter. I voted for Biden, Clinton, and Obama. I live in District 3 and have voted against Boebert every time and will once again next year. I guess nuanced political perspectives aren't allowed in 2023? Rural liberals exist, too, you know.