Mount Lindsey Closure

Information on current and past 14er closures, usually due to private property issues.
Forum rules
  • This is a mountaineering forum, so please keep your posts on-topic. Posts do not all have to be related to the 14ers but should at least be mountaineering-related.
  • Personal attacks and confrontational behavior will result in removal from the forum at the discretion of the administrators.
  • Do not use this forum to advertise, sell photos or other products or promote a commercial website.
  • Posts will be removed at the discretion of the site administrator or moderator(s), including: Troll posts, posts pushing political views or religious beliefs, and posts with the purpose of instigating conflict within the forum.
For more details, please see the Terms of Use you agreed to when joining the forum.
mtn_hound
Posts: 158
Joined: 9/15/2016
Trip Reports (0)
 

Re: Mount Lindsey Closure

Post by mtn_hound »

painless4u2 wrote: Fri Mar 03, 2023 7:08 am
ekalina wrote: Fri Mar 03, 2023 6:59 amThe problem is that the system enables this kind of legal bribery to begin with.
Correct. In this particular case, it wasn't "both sides of the aisle" but democrats cozy with the Trial Lawyers Association that killed it. But state-wide tort reform will be necessary to correct this issue. Texas was able to achieve such reform years ago, and it has worked well.
While their entire power grid goes down when it gets a little chilly outside as a direct result of decisions made by Republican lawmakers. I'm not pro-Dem, I'm anti-stupidity. Ekalina is correct, there's plenty of this b.s. coming from both sides of the aisle, so knock it off with your "you should have seen this coming" nonsense.
User avatar
painless4u2
Posts: 1298
Joined: 7/14/2010
14ers: 58 
Trip Reports (8)
 

Re: Mount Lindsey Closure

Post by painless4u2 »

Nice attempt at deflection of the topic, former California resident. :roll: You should have a lot of experience with black outs and such.
At least those Texas lawmakers were able to reign in Big Lawyers and their greedy take. Colorado should do the same. Now, go sue McDonald's for hot coffee or something.
Bad decisions often make good stories.

IPAs + Ambien = "14ers" post (Bill M.)

In their hearts humans plan their course, but the Lord establishes their steps. Proverbs 16:9
User avatar
dan0rama
Posts: 104
Joined: 1/12/2022
14ers: 26  5 
13ers: 5
Trip Reports (0)
 

Re: Mount Lindsey Closure

Post by dan0rama »

amderr22 wrote: Thu Mar 02, 2023 8:42 pm Given that it is a bipartisan bill, partisan attacks won't help pass the bill - if anything they cause division and help split the coalition.
I don't think you can say it was a bipartisan bill when (i) within the committee all Republicans voted for it and all Democrats voted against it, (ii) majority whip who is also the chair of the committee voted no, (iii) the bill was introduced by Republicans only, and (iv) the very own CO assembly calls it a "Partisan Bill" (https://legiscan.com/CO/bill/SB103/2023)

I am not trying to be rude, I just think as part of the post-mortem, it's important to correctly identify the problem. This bill gives Republicans a big win. Why would Democrats do that? I think that's a much higher barrier to overcome than the trial lawyers association.
User avatar
Jorts
Posts: 1155
Joined: 4/12/2013
14ers: 58  4  2 
13ers: 110 19 5
Trip Reports (13)
 

Re: Mount Lindsey Closure

Post by Jorts »

I love how politics has been distilled to left vs right and Dem vs Repub. Everyone pick your tribe. No room for nuance, moderation or free-thinking. You must be all-in supporting one or the other! ‘Murica!
Traveling light is the only way to fly.
IG: @colorado_invasive
Strava: Brent Herring
User avatar
amderr22
Posts: 76
Joined: 7/22/2018
14ers: 34  4 
13ers: 9
Trip Reports (3)
 

Re: Mount Lindsey Closure

Post by amderr22 »

Jorts wrote: Fri Mar 03, 2023 12:38 pm I love how politics has been distilled to left vs right and Dem vs Repub. Everyone pick your tribe. No room for nuance, moderation or free-thinking. You must be all-in supporting one or the other! ‘Murica!
Yes. If anything, this bill demonstrates how your enemy on one issue is often an ally on another. Ranchers and environmentalists aren't normally partners - but on this bill, they worked together towards a common goal. The bill had both Democrats and Republicans sponsoring the bill, and both Dems and Repubs opposed it. Partisanship was never going to be the key dividing point - it's more dependent on individual personalities, experiences, and values. For example, the Dem Senator who agreed to support the bill at the last second is a lifelong Coloradan and spoke about growing up in the mountains - those experiences convinced him of the value of this bill. Likewise, there was a Republican lobbyist who generally supports landowner rights - but as a trial lawyer, whose livelihood is tied up in this, he opposed these bills, despite overwhelming GOP support.

Like, I'm a Democrat - and I worked very closely with two Republicans to advance this bill. I disagree with them on all kinds of issues - but on this one, we agreed. By putting aside our differences on other issues, we were able to get something done - and at the same time, we built some trust that makes it easier to work through our disagreements without demonizing one another. The process has actually shown that bipartisan problem-solving is still possible, and helped restore just a little bit of faith in the system. Even though we lost, I really do think it was just the opening act, and the bill will pass in the next 1 or 2 sessions after significant public outcry expands the coalition even further.

Ultimately, this bill came down to personal experience, pressure, influence from donors, and personal opinions - not partisan ideology. Hence the weird splits on both sides of the aisle.
-Alex Derr
"Some people go to church, other people explore the outdoors. But we're all looking for the same thing, at the core of it: A place in and respect for the world bigger than ourselves."
User avatar
greenonion
Posts: 1948
Joined: 10/3/2012
14ers: 50  1 
13ers: 2
Trip Reports (0)
 

Re: Mount Lindsey Closure

Post by greenonion »

Jorts wrote: Fri Mar 03, 2023 12:38 pm I love how politics has been distilled to left vs right and Dem vs Repub. Everyone pick your tribe. No room for nuance, moderation or free-thinking. You must be all-in supporting one or the other! ‘Murica!
Agreed. This was my point with my comment last night, but admittedly, I didn’t make it obvious. Many if not most problems we face are too complex for the “all this party” or “all that party” to solve in the political environment we’re now in.
User avatar
painless4u2
Posts: 1298
Joined: 7/14/2010
14ers: 58 
Trip Reports (8)
 

Re: Mount Lindsey Closure

Post by painless4u2 »

greenonion wrote: Fri Mar 03, 2023 2:31 pmMany if not most problems we face are too complex for the “all this party” or “all that party” to solve in the political environment we’re now in.
Funny how when it's obvious it was all one party against, and all one party for, some make pains to try to excuse or diminish the reality. Face the fact: Democrat legislatures sold out to big interest lobbyists and voted against it. Is it so hard to admit the truth? Tort reform works, and that will be the ultimate answer to this issue.
Bad decisions often make good stories.

IPAs + Ambien = "14ers" post (Bill M.)

In their hearts humans plan their course, but the Lord establishes their steps. Proverbs 16:9
User avatar
greenonion
Posts: 1948
Joined: 10/3/2012
14ers: 50  1 
13ers: 2
Trip Reports (0)
 

Re: Mount Lindsey Closure

Post by greenonion »

painless4u2 wrote: Fri Mar 03, 2023 3:25 pm
greenonion wrote: Fri Mar 03, 2023 2:31 pmMany if not most problems we face are too complex for the “all this party” or “all that party” to solve in the political environment we’re now in.
Funny how when it's obvious it was all one party against, and all one party for, some make pains to try to excuse or diminish the reality. Face the fact: Democrat legislatures sold out to big interest lobbyists and voted against it. Is it so hard to admit the truth? Tort reform works, and that will be the ultimate answer to this issue.
Nope, you are right. I'm disappointed too. And I'm sick too of complete tribe alignment to the detriment of working toward solutions these days.
User avatar
jmanner
Posts: 1417
Joined: 5/26/2009
14ers: 58  31  10 
13ers: 55 14 3
Trip Reports (15)
 

Re: Mount Lindsey Closure

Post by jmanner »

Oh the irony of boomers complaining about political polarization. :roll:
A man has got to know his limitations.-Dr. Jonathan Hemlock or Harry Callahan or something F' it: http://youtu.be/lpzqQst-Sg8

'Life is too short to ski groomers'

"That man's only desire was to stand, once only, on the summit of that glorious wedge of rock...I think anyone who loves the mountains as much as that can claim to be a mountaineer, too."-Hermann Buhl, Nanga Parbat Pilgrimage
User avatar
Jorts
Posts: 1155
Joined: 4/12/2013
14ers: 58  4  2 
13ers: 110 19 5
Trip Reports (13)
 

Re: Mount Lindsey Closure

Post by Jorts »

jmanner wrote: Fri Mar 03, 2023 4:46 pm Oh the irony of boomers complaining about political polarization. :roll:
Haha. Not sure if this is directed to me but, uhh, I was born in 1982. So that makes me an ELDER Millenial. And I’m a registered independent. Cool irony, fellow millennial!
Traveling light is the only way to fly.
IG: @colorado_invasive
Strava: Brent Herring
User avatar
Jim Davies
Posts: 7671
Joined: 6/8/2006
14ers: 58  1 
13ers: 67
Trip Reports (5)
 

Re: Mount Lindsey Closure

Post by Jim Davies »

What I found sad was how small the donation to a senator can be to change his mind. $2500 from the trial lawyers, and he sells us out? Man, bribes aren't what they used to be.
Climbing at altitude is like hitting your head against a brick wall — it's great when you stop. -- Chris Darwin
I'm pretty tired. I think I'll go home now. -- Forrest Gump
User avatar
Chicago Transplant
Posts: 4035
Joined: 9/7/2004
14ers: 58  12  24 
13ers: 697 44 34
Trip Reports (66)
 

Re: Mount Lindsey Closure

Post by Chicago Transplant »

We've got the trial lawyers buying senator votes against changing the liability laws on one hand, and the landowner's lawyers telling them to close off the land on the other. It's easy to blame politicians and landowners, but I blame the lawyers. After all Nelson's lawyer started this whole mess anyway as far as I'm concerned.
"We want the unpopular challenge. We want to test our intellect!" - Snapcase
"You are not what you own" - Fugazi
"Life's a mountain not a beach" - Fortune Cookie I got at lunch the other day
Post Reply