Incident at Longs Peak Today (9/17/2022)

[JROSKA]

@ Ptglhs, at least you’re consistent in your position. A lot of folks here are not. Anyways since the moderators here shut down the Capitol thread it seems like they side with your position. With that in mind then hopefully this thread gets shut down too. This poor guy had an identity and a family too, just like Sarah, and probably deserves better than to have his name used as a “learning experience” for the forum. If people don’t want to discuss that’s fine. I’d just like to see more consistency in the forum, regardless of the situation. Maybe the moderator should chime in. Either discuss or don’t discuss. There really should not be any cherry picking depending on the victim’s experience, gender, or popularity on this site.

[onebyone]

Made it to the keyhole on Friday 9/16 around 6am. The last 30 ft leading up to the keyhole were snowy/icy. Winds were coming through the keyhole at 60mph even early in the morning and forecast called for worsening conditions in the afternoon. It was freezing (mountain forecast said 10° F with wind chill). We made the tough call to stop the summit attempt at the keyhole - most people were making the same decision. A few groups decided to push on.

When we returned to the trailhead around 12pm clouds were covering the peak and would continue to for Friday evening and most of Saturday. Curious if the climber was caught on Friday or if he made the attempt early on Saturday. Conditions were not favorable for a summit attempt at either point. RIP to the climber and condolences to the family.

I was amazed on the way down - several groups were making their way through the boulderfield in shorts, sneakers, and some with no gloves. Completely unprepared for conditions at the keyhole and beyond.

Pointed out in link above that it is believed that climbers got stranded overnight Friday. Could have been a hypothermia issue versus a fall. I guess the official SAR report will tell us.

[JaredJohnson]

@ Ptglhs, at least you’re consistent in your position. A lot of folks here are not. Anyways since the moderators here shut down the Capitol thread it seems like they side with your position. With that in mind then hopefully this thread gets shut down too. This poor guy had an identity and a family too, just like Sarah, and probably deserves better than to have his name used as a “learning experience” for the forum. If people don’t want to discuss that’s fine. I’d just like to see more consistency in the forum, regardless of the situation. Maybe the moderator should chime in. Either discuss or don’t discuss. There really should not be any cherry picking depending on the victim’s experience, gender, or popularity on this site.

They can speak for themselves and I hope I'm not taking the bait here, but I suspect the reason the other thread was shut down was not because it contained analysis, but because it devolved into an endless debate about whether to analyze and the meanings of words. Could we please just respectfully analyze, respectfully memorialize, or respectfully comfort those affected; and move the ad nauseam bickering about which of those to do when, into a separate thread?

[justiner]

Sad to hear - and so close to much easier terrain. I remember myself being gripped in fear, unable to move on the Ledges at the spot where the metal peg is driven into the rock. I had to talk myself down, and back to the Keyhole. I've also gotten very, very close to succumbing to hypothermia, stuck someplace I couldn't get out of. Wouldn't wish it on anyone.

[sbb]

I suspect the reason the other thread was shut down was not because it contained analysis, but because it devolved into an endless debate about whether to analyze and the meanings of words.

It's been a few years since I've been active on the forum but I popped on here to get some information about that accident for personal reasons and... man alive, what a disappointment. Is this what the forum has become? Petty bickering and self-righteous patronizing? It's amazing how obnoxious people can be in the guise of demanding others be respectful (if that really is such an issue, then isn't that what the mods are for??). Thought for a second I'd accidently stumbled back onto facebook. Carry on... I'm going back to the mountains for the same reason I went there in the first place... to get away from this kind of stuff.

(this isn't directed at JaredJohnson in anyway; I agree with his comments and was just a jumping off point)

[docinco]

+1

[curt86iroc]

I think dissecting an incident is almost always pointless.

finding the cause of an accident is an integral part of the corrective action process. how does one know what corrections to take if the true cause is never known? this is why AAC, CAIC and many others all publish accident reports...

reviewing accidents in climbing/mountaineering is as old of a process as the sport itself.

[dan0rama]

There are tons of things I find pointless but I don't go around imposing my will on others. As long as you have the freedom to not take part in things you find pointless, you should let others do as they wish. If your feelings are hurt by others looking to debate the circumstances around a tragic accident, then you should exit the debate and seek professional help to learn how to process those feelings in a healthy way. I think it's embarrassing that the community chose to shut down a debate so pertinent to mountaineering.

[JROSKA]

It's amazing how obnoxious people can be in the guise of demanding others be respectful (if that really is such an issue, then isn't that what the mods are for??).

That’s kind of my thought too. A few years back, the moderators here did the right thing and said that analysis is OK, but that it needs to be done in a separate thread & not the memorial thread. That’s a good rule. However, in relatively quick fashion, we saw the “anti-discussion” folks popping up in the analysis threads to tell everyone how disrespectful and insensitive they’re being. That should not be happening. If some of us want to discuss, and analyze, and even speculate, in a respectful way, people who don’t want to take part should just learn to ignore it and move along. As opposed to being amateur security guards. As you reference, let the moderators deal with those who are truly being disrespectful. Merely asking questions, trying to figure out what happened is NOT insensitive or disrespectful.

@ Jared Johnson I get your point about why the Capitol thread ultimately got shut down, it was getting kind of childish at the end with the two guys parsing each other’s words. But it was pretty obvious throughout that people didn’t want that particular situation discussed at all. For whatever reason, not sure why.

[WolfPeak22]

Not sure why there is even a debate about whether or not analysis should be allowed when done respectfully.

It is entirely logical to seek information about how, when, and where things went wrong and try to draw some learning from it. SAR reports are great when it comes to avalanches but have not found any to be particularly helpful when it comes to hiking accidents. Firsthand accounts are the most useful information about the location of the accidents and conditions on the day of. RMNP is only going to say it happened on the ledges vs. someone that might knows it occurred below the false keyhole. I spent hours before failing to summit Longs looking for similar information (largely on this forum) so I was better informed on the risks and exact sections that demand extra caution. Conjecture about the individuals experience or complete speculation about the accident isn't helpful, but why silence those who are providing helpful facts to those who want to be better prepared.

[JaredJohnson]

I suspect the reason the other thread was shut down was not because it contained analysis, but because it devolved into an endless debate about whether to analyze and the meanings of words. Could we please just respectfully analyze, respectfully memorialize, or respectfully comfort those affected; and move the ad nauseam bickering about which of those to do when, into a separate thread?

An attempt at that separate meta-meta-discussion thread: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=62166

It is sad to hear about this victim and about the unfortunate climbers that happened upon the victim.

[dan0rama]

I think Bill should do away with the newsfeed for the forum on the front page. It drives up engagement, but not the right type. If you want to be part of the forum, you go to the forum page and navigate the topics and subtopics you like. Give people the chance to avoid discussions that are too emotionally distressing for them, without censoring the whole community. Again, engagement might decrease, but quality of discussions will increase. I understand the feature is good for business, but it’s not good for us.