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Boggy B wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 3:39 pm
Who yields to whom is subject to common sense applied to the specific circumstances. There was a decent rant about this in a recent trip report. I drive like a maniac on 4WD roads and have never had a problem or confrontation with anyone, even Texans.
And though it's fun to hate on the SxS crowd, the reason all the roads are in terrible shape is the same reason everything's still green and the leaves turned late. I'm sure dramatic increases in all types of motorized traffic have been compounding the natural process last few seasons.
Agree with this 100%. All the hate on UTVs is unjustified. If you don't like em, go to a wilderness area where they aren't allowed. Pretty simple. Rain/weather is the reason the roads have gotten bad, and lack of maintenance is the reason they remain bad. I witnessed Halfmoon road go from smooth as glass earlier this May to pothole hell by mid summer (driving it at least once/week). UTVs do not create the potholes. They may cause ruts that are already there to get deeper, and they might toss rocks around on roads already littered with loose rock, but they are not the cause of the bad roads. That is the weather and increased usage in general. Halfmoon road is smooth as glass again because they actually did work to maintain it. Other counties just need to step up and maintain the popular dirt roads. Or just let them go and have them be 4x4 roads, either way. It wouldn't be that big a deal if they just stopped maintaining the road up to GG, you can always bike to it, walk further, or get a 4x4. Just like Leadking basin, Beartown, etc.
Agreed. The roads aren’t bad from UTV’s, Side by sides, ATV’s etc. If you were to come drive my neighborhood roads in May and come drive them now… they’re probably worse than CR30 which I drove most recently in mid August 2022. No OHV’s drive around my neighborhood. The roads are the way they are here and other places around the state because of the near constant (every day, and not the typical short burst summer showers) rain we received this summer and lack of county maintenance. In addition to maintenance, the road crews have to know what they’re doing. You can’t just grade the road over and over without laying roadbed material every few years.
And before people try to claim that washboard roads are from the OHV crowd speeding around. The blame can be placed on everyone who drives over 3 MPH.
this is highly discouraging to me - as one reason why i never get out to the San Juans is thinking that the car I have I don't want to push into any remotely difficult at all
one of jibler's dirty little secrets is that he is vehicularly challenged - at all times
tmud wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 5:52 pm
The biggest problem with the 4x4 crowd is they are dead set on telling as many people as humanly possible about the places they drive their cars for extended periods of time, and posting as many pictures as facebook will allow, and advertising as much as they can. They seem like the type of people who go to Gatlinburg and Pigeon Forge and say "hey, this is great". And they insist on driving their cars in groups of 20, and seem to enjoy sitting in traffic. But everyone is right, the san juan's have been conceded to the 4x4 crowd. If you want quiet and solitude, go to the desert, because you aren't gonna find it in the SJ's anymore, the wem included.
Me thinks there's a lot of overlap between these fellows and those complaining that there are too many people moving to Colorado.
Bottom line, in my 2 weeks in CO this summer, I've only met courteous S x S users (although I was intruding in their frequently visited territory for only 3-4 days), whether as a hiker or driver, but I've had a few (noticeably one) unpleasant interactions with a reckless car driver. Driving down Lincoln Gulch road (Aspen side of Indy Pass). I literally had just noticed the guy glued to my bumper thinking I'd probably want to pull over and let him go that he already aggressively passed me in a blind spot with exposure on his side, in a spot where I had next to no visibility ahead of me (big rocky bump ahead of a steep sharp curve). Nice new Range Rover with (you guessed it) CO plates). I could then follow his trail of dust for at least 1/4 mile.
We all contribute to road erosion. But a minority of speeders contribute to the majority of it, and a speeding 4WD SUV/truck will cause more damage than a S x S at equal speed, because they are heavier. Simple physics.
GuiGirard wrote: ↑Wed Oct 05, 2022 9:25 am
We all contribute to road erosion. But a minority of speeders contribute to the majority of it, and a speeding 4WD SUV/truck will cause more damage than a S x S at equal speed, because they are heavier. Simple physics.
Tire spin causes road damage. Anyone who has watched a vehicle with all-seasons and no low-range climb any kind of dirt grade understands this. So whatever portion of road deterioration is due to vehicles is probably thanks in good part to sedans and crossovers.
^ This quote is from the thread on permits, but there is very cool picture on page 8 of above PDF (cars parked along hwy 9 in summer 2020). One out of 20 cars is a sedan, which is pretty much in line with my own observations.
(One out of 20, where did I hear this number before? )
)
