Blue Lakes- San Juans Usage Comments

[Bombay2Boulder]

As we all know how overused this area is, but FS is requesting comments about the future land management for this region. The comment website link is in here- https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/gmug/new ... PRD1012109
Especially interesting are the E-Coli levels in the report.

News article about this- https://www.ouraynews.com/news/feds-pro ... zOuLbctn4U
As much as permits suck, this is the new reality in CO and it has finally arrived in the San Juans now.

[two lunches]

thank you for sharing! i will try to remember to call tomorrow.

i super-oppose the idea of ONLY permitting tourists. i don't think that's going to solve any problems and it will absolutely increase the animosity towards visitors, which we NEED coming to our state. conundrum hot springs was permitted for camping/e-coli issues and i *sincerely* think we need to do the same with ice/island lakes and blue lakes. i know it's a total pain in the ass to plan ahead and i value a spontaneous trip just as much as the next colo-lover, but the overuse/over-love in this area is a BIG problem and it's not going to get smaller just because we have volunteers posted up at trailheads. (as an aside- thank you SO MUCH to the SJ locals who have stepped up to educate hikers and remove trash from these beautiful places)

in theory, now that international travel is opening up again, it should decrease the density of people in our backcountry. however with the political climate driving people to colorado and geotagging running rampant on tiktok and instagram, i don't think things will ever be the way they were.

[Conor]

thank you for sharing! i will try to remember to call tomorrow.

i super-oppose the idea of ONLY permitting tourists. i don't think that's going to solve any problems and it will absolutely increase the animosity towards visitors, which we NEED coming to our state. conundrum hot springs was permitted for camping/e-coli issues and i *sincerely* think we need to do the same with ice/island lakes and blue lakes. i know it's a total pain in the ass to plan ahead and i value a spontaneous trip just as much as the next colo-lover, but the overuse/over-love in this area is a BIG problem and it's not going to get smaller just because we have volunteers posted up at trailheads. (as an aside- thank you SO MUCH to the SJ locals who have stepped up to educate hikers and remove trash from these beautiful places)

in theory, now that international travel is opening up again, it should decrease the density of people in our backcountry. however with the political climate driving people to colorado and geotagging running rampant on tiktok and instagram, i don't think things will ever be the way they were.

I agree social media is to blame, but I suggest the problem is that of access. The access in colorado is sooo....easy. Places with easy access will always be crowded. popular places will always be the best bang for the buck. And there used to be a lot of hidden "bang-for-the-buck" gems pre social media and pre internet. My suggestion is to start making people walk farther. How much would usage in chicago basin be decreased if people couldn't take the train?

[Bombay2Boulder]

Yeah, I am not about only permitting tourists. Maui has a state residents free entry and parking for some of the state parks, although you still have to get a reservation, but the use case and conditions are very different in Maui then anywhere in US.
https://dlnr.hawaii.gov/dsp/parks/maui/ ... tate-park/

I will highly recommend reading the impact report, there's some amazing stats in there. I do have a lot of points I am compiling to submit online in their portal about OHVs and the camping mess there. SJMA pretty much had a permanent booth at the TH from Friday-Sunday there all season for visitor awareness- https://sjma.org/get-involved/volunteer/ Ice Lakes permit system is in the pipeline and is gonna be coming soon.

[4thejourney]

I read the article, I haven’t climbed Sneffels but was hoping to tackle it this summer. It seemed like the permit system would be enacted on Memorial Day, which is pretty soon. Is there a web page set up for reservations yet, or is the plan still subject to change??

[dwoodward13]

I read the article, I haven’t climbed Sneffels but was hoping to tackle it this summer. It seemed like the permit system would be enacted on Memorial Day, which is pretty soon. Is there a web page set up for reservations yet, or is the plan still subject to change??

One of the documents says that a final decision will be made once public comment is completed and the environmental assessment is finished. They estimated the EA wouldn't come back until January 2023. Permits would be unlimited for the zone including the summit, ie there won't be hard capped "reservations" nor a reason to jump on anything. Of course that could change as the process evolves.

But everything I read, for this summer the status quo will hold.

[DeTour]

^^ that was my conclusion, as another with the bug to climb Sneffels via Blue Lakes this summer. No specific insight to the process at this particular location, but in general these things take some significant time to implement.

I would like to ask if anyone has input as to specific campsites at or above upper Blue Lake. I assume the upper lake is less busy than the lower ones. And higher is generally better in my book, as long as there is decent terrain and access to water.

[Boggy B]

Thanks for the heads up.

I agree that imposing heavier restrictions on tourists is silly, but a "maximum of four permits per person per year" for day use between May 1 and Sep 30 will punish locals. Even from Montrose I use that trail more than that, and there are probably Ridgway locals who run it a hundred times a season. You can bet they aren't the ones leaving trash and toilet paper.

Also, though I understand it's due to the wilderness boundary, permiting "most of" the trail but not the trailhead invites unenforceable abuse of any day-use permit system.

[Boggy B]

FS published a revised plan based on public comments. It looks like they responded to all concerns, though in many cases they were dismissed.
[EDIT] I failed to link directly to the revised plan, but it can be found here:
https://www.fs.usda.gov/project/?projec ... p=overview
Under Project Documents > Environmental Documents > BlueLakesVisitorUseMgtPlan...

Read comments here. Comment here.

[dwoodward13]

FS published a revised plan based on public comments. It looks like they responded to all concerns, though in many cases they were dismissed.
[EDIT] I failed to link directly to the revised plan, but it can be found here:
https://www.fs.usda.gov/project/?projec ... p=overview
Under Project Documents > Environmental Documents > BlueLakesVisitorUseMgtPlan...

Read comments here. Comment here.

Looks like headlines are permitting (May 1-Sept 30) for day hiking (40 permits per day, group size up to 10) and overnight camping (4 sites) at Blue Lakes. No permits for Sneffels standard route. Removal of some campsites up Yankee Boy (unclear where these are). WAG bags required if no restroom provided for all zones. Closure of various social trails and possible established trail improvements.

[SkaredShtles]

I kind of like the idea of requiring permits for these over-used places. Makes it *much* easier to identify places to avoid like the plague...

[mtngoatwithstyle]

I was just there last week on a Monday morning, getting a little quick hike into the lower & upper blue lakes, which I love doing, and was really shocked to see that many people on a Monday morning. TH parking lot was full when I left and the "overflow" one had almost 8 cars. The SJMT association has done a phenomenal job on parts of the trail,whether it was on redirecting it to another part since deep erosion was evident in the "old" sections, adding "steps"... just a great job but still lots more to do.
Many dogs off leash in the lake swimming and quite a bit on the trail chasing wildlife. Very sad to see that. I continue to see & hear less and less marmots and pikas lately.