Lost: Skis on Torrey's Peak/Ski Recovery Mission

[Matt]

Who's got the Orange Sunshine?

[benners]

" . . . The size estimates were 2,000 vertical, and about a thousand feet wide. The crown depth was tough to judge, but apparantly involved just the new snow and wind drifted snow. The individual regained the summit and walked out without skis. . ."

Holy crap! Man I would consider yourself very fortunate that this incident cost you nothing more than a few pieces of gear, a slide this large is the type of thing I have nightmares about. Not to sound like a conservative fart, but I may just wait on going in there to retrieve your stuff given the current avy conditions and weather forecast. You cannot assume that just because the slope has gone it is now safe, the way the wind is loading things there's no guarantee that the same slope won't be just as dangerous as when you triggered the slide. From the CAIC: "Strong and gusty winds are likely to continue in the usual suspect areas. Expect to find additional and possibly deeper hard and soft slabs in these areas during the next couple of days." Also you cannot assume that there is no danger at all on the standard route up Torreys. Just lookin out for ya Phil.

[Mrwaffles989]

I don't want to self belay because in case there is another slide, I would rather not have to dig myself out. I didn't go down to get my gear because there was still a large amount of snow above me that could have went at anytime. dur! There really is nothing funny about this. Just becuase I lost a rented crampon, does not mean I am not experianced or don't have the proper training. The route I took up completely avoided all avalanche slopes. Oh and someone belaying me rather than solo clearly gives me an advantage in case I was buried or something else happened

[Mrwaffles989]

front range, you don't know what you are talking about. I would like to see you go back down without a belay. I'm just requesting it because I don't want to get swept away in another avalanche. You obviously haven't been up gray's or torrey's recently so you have no idea what you are talking about, there is no avalanche danger if you use careful route finding. You have no idea how much experiance I have or what my abilities are. I am hardly a novice winter mountaineer. Maybe I have rented crampons because I am not some rich yuppie front range climber who can afford everything he/she wants.

Definitely is the best post I've seen in a long time.

I think it behooves Mrwaffles989 to post the full story, since he might as well add an educational component to this hilarious post. For those of us who ski Torrey's, some more detailed information would be really appreciated.

I don't mean to make fun of the original poster, as he had a very expensive day and a long hike down, but to say things like
"The route up torreys is avalanche free and I can guarantee that there will be no danger of any kind for the person belaying."
makes it even funnier, given the fact that you are asking someone to hike up a fourteener in mid-winter with a novice (the rented crampons and the request for a belay give it away).

Redeem thyself, Mrwaffles! Tell us your story!

[rickinco123]

The route I took up completely avoided all avalanche slopes.

Not sure I get this part.

Don't take this too personally, I think the comments have been "good natured" so far. A lot of us smile at this kind of stuff because we have done something similar ourselves. Everyone make mistakes. I don't know who the quote is from but: "the avalanche does not care if you are an expert".

I hope you will provide a blow by blow trip report for us if you are not to irritated by this thread.

[rijaca]

front range, you don't know what you are talking about. I would like to see you go back down without a belay. I'm just requesting it because I don't want to get swept away in another avalanche. You obviously haven't been up gray's or torrey's recently so you have no idea what you are talking about, there is no avalanche danger if you use careful route finding. You have no idea how much experiance I have or what my abilities are. I am hardly a novice winter mountaineer. Maybe I have rented crampons because I am not some rich yuppie front range climber who can afford everything he/she wants.

Definitely is the best post I've seen in a long time.

I think it behooves Mrwaffles989 to post the full story, since he might as well add an educational component to this hilarious post. For those of us who ski Torrey's, some more detailed information would be really appreciated.

I don't mean to make fun of the original poster, as he had a very expensive day and a long hike down, but to say things like
"The route up torreys is avalanche free and I can guarantee that there will be no danger of any kind for the person belaying."
makes it even funnier, given the fact that you are asking someone to hike up a fourteener in mid-winter with a novice (the rented crampons and the request for a belay give it away).

Redeem thyself, Mrwaffles! Tell us your story!

Here was the CAIC forecast for Sunday morning:

"The avalanche danger for the Front Range zone is CONSIDERABLE above treeline on N-NE-E-SE-S aspects and near treeline on N-NE-E-SE aspects. Above treeline on SW-W-NW aspects the danger is MODERATE and near treeline on S-SW-W-NW aspects. Below treeline, the danger is LOW. Wind slabs will be touchy on steep slopes where new snow has drifted."


Doesn't sound too favorable for a ski descent of Torreys. Let's hear your story. Others may learn something.

[Mrwaffles989]

Yah I know. It was moderate the day before. I wouldn't have even been up there if I had know it was considerable. I'll post a trip report sometime soon. I have a ton of pictures too. I just have to deal with a bunch of college stuff right now, caic, and the sheriff before I get to that.

[jbchalk]

[quote="Mrwaffles989"] I am hardly a novice winter mountaineer.

Mr Waffles,

I hope you find your gear and I am glad you are ok. This is quite a learning experience but I would hardly agree with your above statement having just made the connection between this post and your Missouri Mtn TR in which you say "I was pretty apprenhsive to do this with just my dog. I don‘t think he would be able to use a beacon. But at this point, I was willing to risk dying to ski down."

You have everything to learn.

[BillMiddlebrook]

I also read your previous trip reports and came away with the feeling that you were new to this stuff. Not trying to be jerk, just pointing out the obvious.

Anyway...
Relying solely on the CAIC forecasts isn't a good idea. When you get to the base of the terrain you should be able to look at the slopes and determine the general avy potential. Then, you can do more investigation during the ascent on nearby terrain.

Until you are experienced in reading the terrain, it's best to go with experienced partners that know when to turn back.

Glad to hear there was a positive ending to this one.

Be safe!!!

[Mrwaffles989]

Bill, I took an avy I class and have skiied with many experianced people.I knew the slope was wind loaded so I dug a pit(on the slope I was going to ski), the weak layer failed at C15, and there was a Q2 shear plane. There was one level of change in hardness. F to 4F. There was no large change in crystal size and type. I saw no facets or surface hoar. I didn't notice any signs of instability(shooting cracks, whoomphing, etc.. on my ascent) I saw no recent avalanche activity on any aspect in the area. Using Lemon's Theory, I gave the slope 2 lemons, which I wrongfully considered to be safe. I also used the "Alptruth" danger/risk evaluation method. There were no terrain traps or shallow spots where I could affect the depth hoar. Before the descent, I jumped all over where I dug the pit, I did two ski cuts. Everything seemed stable and everything was giving me the green light. It just wasn't my day.

edit:
I NEVER rely soley on the avy report.

[BillMiddlebrook]

Excellent to hear!
Again, glad to hear you made it out ok.

[Gahugafuga]

the weak layer failed at C15, and there was a Q2 shear plane.

everything was giving me the green light.

CT15 is not a green light. Absence of whompfing or shooting cracks only tells you that there is no soft slab. This was a classic hard slab - the strength of the slab masked the snowpack's fragility. Truth be told, I think that stability evaluation methods taught in avy classes make us experts in evaluating soft slab conditions but often don't give us the tools to think critically about hard slabs and how differently they behave. That comes with experience, and in your case an almost costly one. Hard slabs are a kind of all-or-nothing gamble. Hopefully you've taken something away from this.