East Crestone Second dGPS Survey

[supranihilest]

So now we're just inventing peaks out of whole cloth. How about no.

[two lunches]

So now we're just inventing peaks out of whole cloth. How about no.

[astranko]

Before this whole thing kicked off I understood "West Crestone" to mean the high point of the closed 14k+ contour shown by CheapCigarMan. I don't see it as "inventing [a] peak", I see it as referring to a geographical feature.

At risk of being reductive, all "peaks" are invented to refer to geographical features. I do appreciate the perspective given, even if maybe not intentionally, that peak naming was a social technology to identify features that has subsumed that initial goal to become another thing entirely.

I guess we could say Pt 14,062? Is that inventing a peak? Or is a peak and a point different?

[Boggy B]

I see we've arrived.

[Eli Boardman]

Why are three of the bumps considered to be summits and sub summits and the other one isn't? Because Roach or an author didn't name it? Is the peak and naming science and process that arbitrary?

Yes, it is that arbitrary. There are peaks with 295 ft. of prominence that aren't in the main ListsOfJohn database, and there are peaks with 1 ft. of prominence that someone decided to name, so they're in the database. Yes, it's bugged me forever, and it's why it doesn't make much sense to talk about "all" of the unranked peaks imho.

[supranihilest]

Before this whole thing kicked off I understood "West Crestone" to mean the high point of the closed 14k+ contour shown by CheapCigarMan. I don't see it as "inventing [a] peak", I see it as referring to a geographical feature.

This reads like an AI hallucination.

[ekalina]

When I brought it up I didn't get a definitive answer. One said, "No." The other said, "Technically, yes."

Looking at the maps. There are four bumps over 14k. All similar bumps in nature. Why are three of the bumps considered to be summits and sub summits and the other one isn't? Because Roach or an author didn't name it? Is the peak and naming science and process that arbitrary?

Though unsatisfying, that's my understanding. In terms of objects on LoJ, we have:

1) Named (including unofficially) and unnamed ranked (>= 300' of prominence) points
2) Named and unnamed soft-ranked (somewhere between 240-320' of prominence) points. Lidar is eliminating the soft-ranked status of many of these, but even unnamed points that have been stripped of their soft-ranked status are still there for historical reasons. Some points are still truly soft-ranked based on lidar or even dGPS measurements because the measurement uncertainty still spans the 300' prominence threshold.
3) Named (unofficially) unranked (<300' of prominence) points
4) Zero-prominence unnamed points if they're the high point of a county, wilderness area, national forest, etc.

Northeast Crestone falls into category #3 because an author chose to identify it in a guidebook. Some points have very little prominence (maybe less than the point you're referring to as West Crestone), but because they're named in printed material, they're on LoJ. The point in question doesn't fall into any of the categories 1-4 and is thus unacknowledged. I agree that this is arbitrary, but the problem is that without this criterion, anything that has a single closed contour (or maybe even 1' or more of prominence) would need to be on LoJ.

[onebyone]

Just here to make sure all the finishers climbed on top on that rock rectangle thing on Snowmass. Does a hand count. Or must the bottom of your boot need to be applied.

https://www.14ers.com/php14ers/uphotos. ... &pictype=1

[ekalina]

Just here to make sure all the finishers climbed on top on that rock rectangle thing on Snowmass. Does a hand count. Or must the bottom of your boot need to be applied.

https://www.14ers.com/php14ers/uphotos. ... &pictype=1

You know onebyone, you seem to have an issue with people wanting to have quantitative standards for where summits are. I see it as a bit hypocritical though, because how do you think the original list of 14ers was compiled? They did their best using the standards and equipment of the day, sometimes applied unevenly and imperfectly, which provides an opportunity for refinement to those who wish to participate. But if nobody had ever bothered to apply any standards to the Colorado mountains, you'd have a very hard time finishing the 14ers because the list of summits and their locations wouldn't exist.

[astranko]

Before this whole thing kicked off I understood "West Crestone" to mean the high point of the closed 14k+ contour shown by CheapCigarMan. I don't see it as "inventing [a] peak", I see it as referring to a geographical feature.

This reads like an AI hallucination.

Your comment about inventing peaks read to me like a Zen koan.

To achieve enlightenment you must climb and prostrate yourself on ""West" Crestone".

No, not that one. The other one. No, the other one. The other, other one. Etc.

[supranihilest]

Before this whole thing kicked off I understood "West Crestone" to mean the high point of the closed 14k+ contour shown by CheapCigarMan. I don't see it as "inventing [a] peak", I see it as referring to a geographical feature.

This reads like an AI hallucination.

Your comment about inventing peaks read to me like a Zen koan.

To achieve enlightenment you must climb and prostrate yourself on ""West" Crestone".

No, not that one. The other one. No, the other one. The other, other one. Etc.

There is no Crestone.

[Kiefer]

This reads like an AI hallucination.

Your comment about inventing peaks read to me like a Zen koan.

To achieve enlightenment you must climb and prostrate yourself on ""West" Crestone".

No, not that one. The other one. No, the other one. The other, other one. Etc.

There is no Crestone.

flat,750x,075,f-pad,750x1000,f8f8f8.u1.jpg