East Crestone Second dGPS Survey

[maff]

Thinking about the NFL instituting technology to precisely measure whether the ball, as spotted, is across the first down line or not, but still using an referee standing several feet away to spot the ball in the first place, by eyeballing where he thinks the ball was when the player was tackled.

It’s great that you have extremely precisely measured the comparative difference between what appears to be the two high points of the peak. I’m curious about whether the measuring points (the apparent natural high points) were selected with the same degree of precision as the measurement itself. If not, the comparative precision between the two points isn’t especially meaningful in terms of which peak is higher. At a difference of a foot or less, it’s an important question.

[Veory]

The criterion used was if the boulder is too big for one (normal) person to move under their own power, it's probably natural. It seems quite feasable that there are some medium sized boulders naturally on the summit, as there are plenty of similar sized boulders strewn everywhere else on the mountain.

Whether or not you consider this to be good enough is really a tough question to answer. Like the 300' prominence rule, we simply have to define the highest likely-natural point under some somewhat arbitrary manner, or else for most summits you'd have to excavate so much rock off the top it might not be a 14er anymore (looking at you Sunshine).

[Veory]

I'll also add, looking at the pictures from both surveys you can clearly tell it is placed on the exact highpoint of the same boulder, so Eric's point selection was not at fault for this discrepency. He always sight levels to make sure he has the exact highest point under the aforementioned criterion.

[josephnephi]

I'm just going the preface this by saying I don't have an opinion one way or the other (you should climb both!).

I was up there a few weeks ago and in my opinion nothing on the summit seemed like a man-made cairn. There are a couple boulders up there that would be incredibly hard to move up onto the summit. The last little bit onto the true summit is probably 2+/3 so I doubt any material was moved onto the summit. Any cairn would need to be built with what was already up there. Rocks on the summit just seemed randomly strewn about to me. I trust Eric's assessment in the October 2025 survey that the point he measured was hard to move with 1/2 people. It looks like he measured the same point in this survey.

At the very least I think both the east and west summits should be climbed. I personally think Eric has shown that the east peak is higher but agree that it's really close. If trying to determine what is and isn't a summit cairn makes you uncomfortable (which is 100% valid), I'd say treat the East Crestone error bar as ±1 foot. In that case, both summits are essentially the same height and should both be climbed. If you just climb both that all of this summit cairn business is a moot point. It takes 10 extra minutes, both summits are interesting, and then you don't have to care which is higher.

[supranihilest]

At the very least I think both the east and west summits should be climbed. I personally think Eric has shown that the east peak is higher but agree that it's really close. If trying to determine what is and isn't a summit cairn makes you uncomfortable (which is 100% valid), I'd say treat the East Crestone error bar as ±1 foot. In that case, both summits are essentially the same height and should both be climbed. If you just climb both that all of this summit cairn business is a moot point. It takes 10 extra minutes, both summits are interesting, and then you don't have to care which is higher.

I know this thread isn't about my bestie West Eolus, but this is my thought on it too. Too close to call? Best climb it to be safe. That said, it's several orders of magnitude more difficult than East Crestone, so there's that too.

Sincerely,

The Guy Who Has Climbed West Eolus But Not East Crestone

[Eli Boardman]

I just hope both teams had fun.
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Crestone_E-W_2018.jpg

[ruggedland]

This is a shot of E Crestone summit I took last weekend. There is a pile of rocks on top for sure, and the measurement was from the tip-top of that pile. The pile looks natural to me but what do I know.

[Jorts]

Natural or not, loose summit rocks shift regularly. This has always been my only objection to ultra-precise measurements being held up as undeniable truth.

The content of oxygen in the atmosphere is 20.95%. We don't quote it as 20.95421102349% cause that number is useless since it's always varying slightly.

[HikerGuy]

This is a shot of E Crestone summit I took last weekend. There is a pile of rocks on top for sure, and the measurement was from the tip-top of that pile. The pile looks natural to me but what do I know.

Time to retrieve the crowbar off Gladstone and put it to use...j/k!

[ruggedland]

The content of oxygen in the atmosphere is 20.95%. We don't quote it as 20.95421102349% cause that number is useless since it's always varying slightly.

At that level of precision the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle kicks in

[BillMiddlebrook]

This is a shot of E Crestone summit I took last weekend. There is a pile of rocks on top for sure, and the measurement was from the tip-top of that pile. The pile looks natural to me but what do I know.

Time to retrieve the crowbar off Gladstone and put it to use...j/k!

Or move a large, nearby rock onto the highpoint of the named (Western) summit. Big enough to make the Peak 14,301' and heavy enough so the average hiker can't move it.

[justiner]

The criterion used was if the boulder is too big for one (normal) person to move under their own power, it's probably natural. It seems quite feasable that there are some medium sized boulders naturally on the summit, as there are plenty of similar sized boulders strewn everywhere else on the mountain.

An entire gym of bored crossfitters could do the funniest thing to the 14ers list.