how much water and other gear questions

[AndrewLyonsGeibel]

I hike the Barr Trail a lot and always just dip my bottle in the stream (above camp). Maybe not the best idea but it's always nice and cold.

[LURE]

So really, I'm lazy, really lazy, and probably gonna get sick eventually.

Anyway, I don't purify spring water or snow, or water very near the source, but I almost always do at other times. In the US at least, cattle and sheep (especially) are the biggest concerns and the biggest polluters. Beavers come next on the list.

That was the case with Uncompahgre. I should clarify a little that I'm nearly always purifying my water with chlorine dioxide, but when there is a low risk opportunity for some fresh alpine water I'm all over it. Up just below Uncompahgre there was a lot of snow still melting, and at above 12,500 feet while being able to see the snow fields my water was coming from I jumped on the chance to gulp down some fresh, fresh, untouched water. Certainly there is still a risk but it's rather minimal in that circumstance. I would continue to argue that it's generally minimal everywhere you go. Though, I agree and can't argue against the points being made that with the ease of filtration, why wouldn't you?

My dad talks about his backcountry days and spending time on Outwardbound, only back in the 60's and 70's when they still never purified water, it was never really a concern - cross a stream and hydrate up without thinking. You could further argue that in the big picture the risks haven't really gone up much since then, but filtration and purification marketing certainly has. Nonetheless, I will agree, given the potential consequences why not filtrate when it's simple. But I personally get a lot of enjoyment out of seeking the opportunity for good high alpine water untouched by filters or chemicals, one my little backcountry joys.

[JaredJohnson]

Just throwing it out there, I've seen marmot poop at all altitudes

[Scott P]

My dad talks about his backcountry days and spending time on Outwardbound, only back in the 60's and 70's when they still never purified water, it was never really a concern - cross a stream and hydrate up without thinking. You could further argue that in the big picture the risks haven't really gone up much since then, but filtration and purification marketing certainly has.

Water quality in the backcountry has actually gotten much better in recent years than in the 1960's and 1970's. First, backcountry grazing has dropped in recent years. The late 1960's and 1970's also saw an increase in waterborne diseases because soldiers brought them back from Vietnam. Overall, water quality has definitely improved since then.

The 14ers might be a rare exception however, since usage has skyrocketed in recent years.

[LURE]

My dad talks about his backcountry days and spending time on Outwardbound, only back in the 60's and 70's when they still never purified water, it was never really a concern - cross a stream and hydrate up without thinking. You could further argue that in the big picture the risks haven't really gone up much since then, but filtration and purification marketing certainly has.

Water quality in the backcountry has actually gotten much better in recent years than in the 1960's and 1970's. First, backcountry grazing has dropped in recent years. The late 1960's and 1970's also saw an increase in waterborne diseases because soldiers brought them back from Vietnam. Overall, water quality has definitely improved since then.

The 14ers might be a rare exception however, since usage has skyrocketed in recent years.

That definitely makes sense. Especially if you were to think about laws - if you think about the Acts from Congress passed since then on water quality and also the wilderness act. The wilderness act (1964 right?), if it were possible to measure such a thing, probably prevented a lot of backcountry water quality from degrading any further if it was on the down, and simultaneously maybe allowed some to recover a tad where it was bad as Congress started churning out wilderness areas.

Edit: I think this is a rich topic. You could argue that like 14ers and the hype around that, while the wilderness act does much to protect and preserve wild places for our enjoyment, it could also be a big attractor that causes new problems with a renewed desire for people to go there.

[oldschoolczar]

Just throwing it out there, I've seen marmot poop at all altitudes

I've seen a dude taking a dump in the rocks at ~13,000ft before It happens. With so many people up there who don't really know about environmental stewardship, it probably happens a lot. I'd drink unfiltered water out in the "wilderness", but never anywhere on a 14er.

[TallGrass]

Drink a liter before you start, bring 1.5L on the hike, finish it on the summit. No need for water on the descent.

I'm not sure telling newbies to have no water on the descent is the best advice.

Why not? Are you going to pack your water all the way back to the TH and dehydrate yourself just to say "I still have water!" You have to water along so you can drink it (hydrate), and Spidey says to drink it. So what are you using it for? Ballast?

advocating top-off-your- tank before descending, carrying it in your belly beats carrying it in your pack

Please, newbies, disregard TallGass. Descending a mountain with no water is absurdly foolish. Save at least a half a liter even for a short descent on a cool day.

Additional edit- yes Spiderman said it first, and got called out for bad advice. Then, bizarrely, TallGass supported the advice.

Bizarrely, edited off the first part where I said "I read that as Spidey advocating..." to make it look like it was my advice -- it wasn't. That said, you're telling people not to follow it without saying why.

Bad advice? Water is packed to keep you hydrated. You hydrate by drinking it. He says to drink it.

You dehydrate by leaving it in your pack. Then not only do you have to deal with dehydration symptoms, but also wait for the body to metabolize any water you drink afterward to recover. Why advocate cure over prevention? And many routes offer sources you can filter from if you need more, though my water-demands go way down when descending because my physical exertion does.

Spidey also likes keeping his pack weight down. Who advocates keeping pack weight up? Only exception I can think of is for training purposes.

[oldschoolczar]

Why not? Are you going to pack your water all the way back to the TH and dehydrate yourself just to say "I still have water!" You have to water along so you can drink it (hydrate), and Spidey says to drink it. So what are you using it for? Ballast?

Perhaps you take a wrong turn on your descent extending your hike for 2-3 hours?

I usually don't have any water left on descent, but it's never a bad idea...

[Bradradical]

You dehydrate by leaving it in your pack

Wtf are you talking about? Please just admit that you and Spiderman offered bad advice and stop cluttering up this thread with nonsense. You will gain more respect that way.

[JaredJohnson]

You dehydrate by leaving it in your pack

Wtf are you talking about?

To be fair I think it's quite valid to say, if you are thirsty enough at the summit to drink 0.5L of water, and you have 0.5L of water remaining, then you should drink it, rather than letting it sit there and staying thirsty. I agree with this.

Although IMO when planning, the goal should be to pack and/or filter enough water that you'll be able to drink whenever you're thirsty and still have a little left when you get back to your car.

-Jared

[Bradradical]

if you are thirsty enough at the summit to drink 0.5L of water, and you have 0.5L of water remaining, then you should drink it, rather than letting it sit there and staying thirsty. I agree with this

Who exactly were you trying to agree with? Who said this?

Am I the only one to bring in the word "ration" for god sakes.

[FCSquid]

In an effort to bring this thread back on-topic, here's a trick I learned the hard way after a miserable experience on Little Bear's Southwest Ridge (read: seeing imaginary snakes in the talus because I was bonking so hard):

I'll pack two one-quart Gatorade bottles when starting the hike, bring them somewhere up near treeline and stash them in nearest stream along the way. Sip water while summitting and coming back down, then I'll find my stash of Gatorade on the way out and pound one of them completely. Pack the other (now ice-cold) bottle down and enjoy it at camp / in the car.

I've found that just when I'm really starting to crash after a big exertion day, that burst of electrolytes and sugar makes the slog back to the trailhead much more enjoyable and gives me the energy I need to drive back home safely.