Petition to rename Kit Carson

[Fred_Bauder]

It turns out that Kit Carson Peak, according to the Board is unnamed.

According to GNIS, it looks like Kit Carson Mountain is the official name for highest point of the Kit Carson massif.

Not according to the U.S. Board on Geographic Names which considers the peak "unnamed", thus are currently considering two proposals to name it: one to name it Tranquility Peak, one to name it Kit Carson Peak. I have through emails with the Board determined that is their posture.

[Doug Shaw]

Not according to the U.S. Board on Geographic Names which considers the peak "unnamed", thus are currently considering two proposals to name it: one to name it Tranquility Peak, one to name it Kit Carson Peak. I have through emails with the Board determined that is their posture.

This sounds like a case of one hand not knowing what the other is doing, or maybe one hand giving out the wrong information, or maybe the provided information being misinterpreted.

The GNIS is the actual database for the Board of Geographic Names:

"The Geographic Names Information System (GNIS) is the Federal and national standard for geographic nomenclature. The U.S. Geological Survey developed the GNIS in support of the U.S. Board on Geographic Names as the official repository of domestic geographic names data, the official vehicle for geographic names use by all departments of the Federal Government, and the source for applying geographic names to Federal electronic and printed products."

[Fred_Bauder]

Not according to the U.S. Board on Geographic Names which considers the peak "unnamed", thus are currently considering two proposals to name it: one to name it Tranquility Peak, one to name it Kit Carson Peak. I have through emails with the Board determined that is their posture.

This sounds like a case of one hand not knowing what the other is doing, or maybe one hand giving out the wrong information, or maybe the provided information being misinterpreted.

The GNIS is the actual database for the Board of Geographic Names:

"The Geographic Names Information System (GNIS) is the Federal and national standard for geographic nomenclature. The U.S. Geological Survey developed the GNIS in support of the U.S. Board on Geographic Names as the official repository of domestic geographic names data, the official vehicle for geographic names use by all departments of the Federal Government, and the source for applying geographic names to Federal electronic and printed products."

My impression is that there is a small Board and a staff of about half a dozen. I don't think they are misinterpreting their own database. You can clear this up by emailing GNIS Manager gnis_manager@usgs.gov

There is an ambiguity between the naming of the massif and the naming of the 3 peaks on the massif. Bottom line, if the agitators get their way, Kit Carson Mountain will be called Crestone Mountain and Kit Carson Peak will be called Tranquility Peak.

[Brian Kalet]

Bottom line, if the agitators get their way, Kit Carson Mountain will be called Crestone Mountain and Kit Carson Peak will be called Tranquility Peak.

So there will be two unique features with identical coordinates? Has this ever happened before?

[susanjoypaul]

Hmmm... the many faces of Kit Carson:

• This site calls it Kit Carson Peak.
  Lists of John calls it Kit Carson Mountain.
  SummitPost calls it Kit Carson Peak.
  Roach calls it Kit Carson Mountain.
  CFI calls it Kit Carson Peak.
  Peakbagger calls it Kit Carson Mountain.

And according to Wikipedia:

• The name Kit Carson Mountain can be used to describe three summits: Columbia Point, Kit Carson Peak and Challenger Point. It can also be used to describe the main summit only.

I guess this is all irrelevant in the long run, and like Fred said, "Bottom line, if the agitators get their way, Kit Carson Mountain will be called Crestone Mountain and Kit Carson Peak will be called Tranquility Peak."

What really concerns me at this point is how Doug Shaw and Bill Middlebrook are starting to look like guys that I dated back in 1976. Truly disturbing.

[Fred_Bauder]

Bottom line, if the agitators get their way, Kit Carson Mountain will be called Crestone Mountain and Kit Carson Peak will be called Tranquility Peak.

So there will be two unique features with identical coordinates? Has this ever happened before?

Kit Carson Peak is the highest summit of Kit Carson Mountain; the two other summits are Columbia Point and Challenger Point. Kit Carson mountain is a massif with three peaks.

The Wikipedia article is no help, as it does not use the established geographical names but the labeling of the illustration at the top right is correct.

[BillMiddlebrook]

What really concerns me at this point is how Doug Shaw and Bill Middlebrook are starting to look like guys that I dated back in 1976. Truly disturbing.

Ha!
I'm glad I could take you back a few decades. :D

As far as the issue of Kit Carson Mountain, I'm with Fred on this.

Renaming to Mount Crestone would only cause a lot of confusion.

[BillMiddlebrook]

I provided some clarification on the 14ers.com Kit Carson/Challenger page regarding the name.
If I've made any errors on that page, please let me know.

Since Gerry Roach and John Kirk are now using Kit Carson Mountain (instead of Kit Carson Peak) for the high point of the massif, there's no reason why I can't change it too. Simple change on the site.
Thoughts?

[tmathews]

Since Gerry Roach and John Kirk are now using Kit Carson Mountain (instead of Kit Carson Peak) for the high point of the massif, there's no reason why I can't change it too. Simple change on the site.
Thoughts?

Might as well try to keep names consistent within the mountaineering community, right? I just hope the name issue is settled before Roach's Third Edition goes to print for its release next Spring (if there are any changes made)....

[Brian Kalet]

I provided some clarification on the 14ers.com Kit Carson/Challenger page regarding the name.
If I've made any errors on that page, please let me know.

Since Gerry Roach and John Kirk are now using Kit Carson Mountain (instead of Kit Carson Peak) for the high point of the massif, there's no reason why I can't change it too. Simple change on the site.
Thoughts?

Kit Carson Mountain is a massif that contains three main summits: Kit Carson Peak, Challenger Point and 13er Columbia Point. "Kit Carson Peak" is a variant name that was assigned in 1906 and refers to the highest point. In 1970, the entire massif was then officially given the name "Kit Carson Mountain."

I don't believe GNIS and/or the U.S. Board on Geographic names are interested in naming massifs but are only interested in naming summits with distinct coordinates. It appears to me that the highest point was officially named Kit Carson Peak in 1906, then changed to Kit Carson Mountain in 1970. I believe this is the view of both Gerry Roach and John Kirk and explains why they use the name Kit Carson Mountain. Where is the evidence that in 1970, the entire massif, as opposed to the highest point, was then officially given the name Kit Carson Mountain?

[MountainHiker]

I provided some clarification on the 14ers.com Kit Carson/Challenger page regarding the name.
If I've made any errors on that page, please let me know.

Since Gerry Roach and John Kirk are now using Kit Carson Mountain (instead of Kit Carson Peak) for the high point of the massif, there's no reason why I can't change it too. Simple change on the site.
Thoughts?

I’ll play devil’s advocate. Kit Carson Mountain refers to the whole massif including Challenger & Columbia. If you say Kit Carson Peak, although not officially named, you could be referring to the summit most of us know as Kit Carson. We often have shorthand when referring to mountains. We usually just say Kit Carson. That is true with most fourteeners in conversation. With the Crestones we often just say the Peak or The Needle. With most mountains I’m often not certain which ones are Peak verses Mount or Mountain because of our verbal shorthand. I see referring to the summit as Kit Carson Peak just as valid as all the other unofficial but now familiar names like Drift & Lackawanna. Roach qualifies the unofficial names with quotation marks.

I think to us the real issue is another name being put on the peak. Tranquility doesn’t have the historical claim Crestone does. Crestone would be just plan confusing. It could sent potential rescuers to the wrong mountain.

[susanjoypaul]

Crestone would be just plan confusing. It could sent potential rescuers to the wrong mountain.

Perhaps the best argument yet for retaining the name "Kit Carson."