Petition to rename Kit Carson

[FourteenerDan]

It would be interesting to see what Native Americans and early Spanish/Mexican settlers called it.

When we went to Alaska, we were told that when the Athabaskans called it "The High One", Denali, it wasn't with a ton of reverence. It was just a descriptive reply to the question: "What do you call that mountain?"

[Jim Davies]

It would be interesting to see what Native Americans and early Spanish/Mexican settlers called it.

What's the Spanish word for "Baldy"?

The people in San Luis called their mountains "La Sierra". Boring.

[lizs]

What a mess. All I've got to say is if you really don't want it renamed, indeed mount the effort against it. Make sure you know the deadlines for getting information in - and get it in before then! I would imagine if there would be a decision to rename, there could possibly be some remedy in approaching a citizens' board that is almost like an appeal board? (at least I know that is in effect for a lot of state agencies like DNR, pollution control, etc., at least in Minnesota where I am). Otherwise, if a decision is made to rename, you could wager a court battle, I'd imagine. And would think the reverse would be true for the town/county if a decision is made not to rename.

Another idea, if I understand this right - become allies with those in the other county. They may not like the renaming as it sounds like it would add a bunch of confusion, including unwanted confusion in their area. So maybe they will back you.

It's funny that in my area we went to E911 addresses, finally, as a way to pinpoint locations by GPS coordinates, as opposed to the "old farm around the second corner with the tall silo." However, in covering a recent fire I was hearing firefighters describing the location by road turns and not coordinates, in talking to a second truck responding. (am not sure what dispatch is doing). If that were to happen you might indeed have emergency response go to a wrong mountain location, say, with some responders using the old name and some new people only knowing a new name. Just another point to make....

My $.02

[MN teleMARKer]

So, if they re-name the mountain, do I have to change the names of my cats also? Since they were named after the mountain. (My female cat's name is Kit and my male cat's name is Carson.)

[Jon Frohlich]

Aren't there other concerns at the Crestone city council meeting that might be more pressing? Geez... I hope so. Maybe not.

Have you been to Crestone? You probably wouldn't ask this question if you had... :D

[Jesse Peterson]

Wow. Who cares really? It's a mountain. It doesn't have a name. It doesn't call up other mountains and say, "hey it's me Kit, you free tonight?" "no, you a$$hole, you killed Indians 150 years ago..."

you're crackin me up dude. good point.

[Rich H]

If anything they should keep the name for what Kit did during the Civil War...Turning back the Texas Hordes from Colorado Gold

[susanjoypaul]

Recap and Update:

The proposal to name the massif "Mount Crestone" and the highest point "Tranquility Peak" is in the review list that was released February 20, 2008. This was proposed by Keno Menechino, who has posted on this thread, and it can be reviewed here, at Review List 397: http://geonames.usgs.gov/domestic/quarterly_list.htm

The proposal to name the highest point on the massif "Kit Carson Peak" is in the review list that was released yesterday, November 15, 2010. This was proposed by Fred Bauder, who has posted on this thread, and it can be reviewed here at Review List 405: http://geonames.usgs.gov/domestic/quarterly_list.htm

While it's unclear as to exactly when the BGN will be making their decisions on these proposals, it's my understanding that a decision on the *first* proposal could come as early as next month. For this reason, if you have an opinion on this one way or the other and would like it to be considered, it's important that you reach out to all parties involved prior to December 1st.

Here are some of the people you can contact, who will either be making that decision, or influencing it.

The Deciders

• 1) The GNIS Manager: gnis_manager@usgs.gov

Local Influencers - these folks have already weighed in, primarily "for" the name change:

• 2) The City Council, City of Crestone: I don't have an email address, but I believe they have already weighed in with 9 *for* and 0 against renaming the Kit Carson to Crestone Mountain and Tranquility Peak.
  3) The Mayor of the City of Crestone, Ralph Abrams: Again, no email address but I believe he has voiced his opinion *for* the name change.
  4) Saguache County Commissioners: I believe two out of three of them are *for* the name change.

Additional Influencers - these folks will most likely provide their recommendations on the proposals:

• 5) Colorado Geographical Names Board: terry.ketelsen@state.co.us
  6) USFS: http://www.fs.fed.us/contactus/
  7) Colorado Mountain Club: cmcoffice@cmc.org

While petitions and polls may not carry a lot of weight with the BGN, I still believe that every vote counts in sending a message to that organization as to where the 14ers.com community stands on this issue. We're currently 12 for and 154 against the name change.

If you care about the decision:

• 1) Email the above entities with your thoughts.
  2) Continue to share your thoughts on this thread, which will be presented to the BGN.
  3) Vote in the poll!

Thanks!

[Keno Menechino]

mountainrev wrote:

I believe Colorado's epic 14ers belong to more than just the communities that are closest to them. In a very real sense, they belong to all of us (which is why many get upset over the private ownership and closed access to peaks like Culebra). Thus, IMHO, it's a bit presumptuous for a small community like Crestone to feel that they are the only ones enlightened enough to name these peaks.

Yes, the mountain belongs to everybody, but it is the locals who live in Crestone who maintain the trails in our nearby mountains, including Kit Carson Mountain. It is our local Search and Rescue people (using our local tax dollars) who risk their lives up on this mountain, who heed the call of duty when somebody gets lost, hurt, or killed up on that mountain. When people from outside of town want to climb the mountain, us locals are the ones they ask about the conditions. As the town's official weather observer and record keeper, I've have many climbers ask me how the conditions are up there, and in the last several years I have talked a few of them from climbing the mountain in October and November because of dangerous conditions which they didn't know about.

One person a year on average dies up on that mountain and each time this happens our small community feels the pain along with the families affected by the lost. Too bad none of you who post here feel our pain with the mountain being called by the wrong name for 100 plus years, and clearly, none of you understand the long running confusion caused by this problem. Like I already said, it's Crestone up against the entire world once again.

[susanjoypaul]

Bump.

Recap and Update:

The proposal to name the massif "Mount Crestone" and the highest point "Tranquility Peak" is in the review list that was released February 20, 2008. This was proposed by Keno Menechino, who has posted on this thread, and it can be reviewed here, at Review List 397: http://geonames.usgs.gov/domestic/quarterly_list.htm

The proposal to name the highest point on the massif "Kit Carson Peak" is in the review list that was released yesterday, November 15, 2010. This was proposed by Fred Bauder, who has posted on this thread, and it can be reviewed here at Review List 405: http://geonames.usgs.gov/domestic/quarterly_list.htm

While it's unclear as to exactly when the BGN will be making their decisions on these proposals, it's my understanding that a decision on the *first* proposal could come as early as next month. For this reason, if you have an opinion on this one way or the other and would like it to be considered, it's important that you reach out to all parties involved prior to December 1st.

Here are some of the people you can contact, who will either be making that decision, or influencing it.

The Deciders

• 1) The GNIS Manager: gnis_manager@usgs.gov

Local Influencers - these folks have already weighed in, primarily "for" the name change:

• 2) The City Council, City of Crestone: I don't have an email address, but I believe they have already weighed in with 9 *for* and 0 against renaming the Kit Carson to Crestone Mountain and Tranquility Peak.
  3) The Mayor of the City of Crestone, Ralph Abrams: Again, no email address but I believe he has voiced his opinion *for* the name change.
  4) Saguache County Commissioners: I believe two out of three of them are *for* the name change.

Additional Influencers - these folks will most likely provide their recommendations on the proposals:

• 5) Colorado Geographical Names Board: terry.ketelsen@state.co.us
  6) USFS: http://www.fs.fed.us/contactus/
  7) Colorado Mountain Club: cmcoffice@cmc.org

While petitions and polls may not carry a lot of weight with the BGN, I still believe that every vote counts in sending a message to that organization as to where the 14ers.com community stands on this issue. We're currently 12 for and 154 against the name change.

If you care about the decision:

• 1) Email the above entities with your thoughts.
  2) Continue to share your thoughts on this thread, which will be presented to the BGN.
  3) Vote in the poll!

Thanks!

[MountainHiker]

Yes, the mountain belongs to everybody, but it is the locals who live in Crestone who maintain the trails in our nearby mountains, including Kit Carson Mountain.

Along the Colorado Fourteener Initiative and the National Forest Service.

It is our local Search and Rescue people (using our local tax dollars) who risk their lives up on this mountain, who heed the call of duty when somebody gets lost, hurt, or killed up on that mountain.

True, this is a large impact on a small county which is why volunteer SAR groups from around the state support each other. We should all be very grateful for the selfless efforts of these individuals.

When people from outside of town want to climb the mountain, us locals are the ones they ask about the conditions. As the town's official weather observer and record keeper, I've have many climbers ask me how the conditions are up there, and in the last several years I have talked a few of them from climbing the mountain in October and November because of dangerous conditions which they didn't know about.

I’m sure there are many local inquiries, and we appreciate you responding with sound information, but also I’m sure contributors to this and other websites distribute more information to more climbers than local inquiries.

One person a year on average dies up on that mountain and each time this happens our small community feels the pain along with the families affected by the lost.

Every tragedy is felt way beyond the local community at the base of the mountain. One a year, that seems high, maybe you’re including the whole Crestone group?

Too bad none of you who post here feel our pain with the mountain being called by the wrong name for 100 plus years, and clearly, none of you understand the long running confusion caused by this problem.

We acknowledge the historical claim that goes back to the original United States government surveys in Colorado. But there’s no pretending the names were firmly established yet. Names were still being made up. The only people confused are a few old timers in Crestone. As interesting as the historical stories are, they are not sufficient reason to now confuse everybody else.

Like I already said, it's Crestone up against the entire world once again.

That’s dramatic! What else has made the town of Crestone feel the whole world is against them?

[RobertPetrowsky]

Would someone please explain to me how renaming the mountain will change anything about people dying on it? Will it fund S&R better? This peak is on public land and the public has a say in this. Renaming this could cause a lot more problems than it will ever fix. As someone who works with S&R I know that injured climbers will not get the service they need if they call 911. What this will do is confuse more people as to which peak they are on and cause delayed response in life threatening emergencies. When S&R suffers the locals will take the extra burden because the state is less willing to fund an agency which can't even find a peak.

I know the locals are upset but believe me when I say this isn't the way to solve your problem.